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Hello,
I have this sleeve vase, which is in the style of a transitional vase, but the base looks quite messy. Anyone an expert on these ? Does anyone know what happened to the base / foot? It does appear to have a very white paste underneath the grit, you can only see it from the side view. But it's very messy. Any input much appreciated
.
thanks,
Tom
Well it certainly is painted in a transitional style, even down to the heavy outline of the ear on one scholar, similar to one Rob Michaels and Christies, but the base is no where similar to online examples. It is not kiln grit but possibly artificially dirtied, plus their examples actually had rims. Perhaps someone more familiar with these items will address, but I find it highly questionable. Does it feel like grit? Sharon
Dear Tom,
it is a clear, very clear fake. And even not of good level. There are other much more dangerous around. Painting style completely off. Hope you don't have paid it too much. Sorry
Regards,
Giovanni
thanks Sharon, it feels quite smooth, but yes it doesn't look right.
Yes Giovanni a copy, but I didn't pay much, about £80.. Do you have any idea what period it might be?
thanks again
Dear Tom,
Transitional ware was not appreciated in the following periods. It is a new fake.
Beware with these. Unlike your one, they are very well copied now, even experts can be fooled. I must admit that I have been fooled twice. Perfect painting style, perfect base. Really dangerous.
Regards,
Giovanni
@clayandbrush Giovanni, do you have pictures of the ones that you were fooled by? If so and you would be willing to show them perhaps we could all learn something from it. Also, how did you finally uncover that you had been fooled?
Dear John,
no pictures, and believe me, they will not be of some help, because as I said the imitation was excellent. It is only by handling them that one can feel the difference.
Giovanni
@clayandbrush Are the real ones heavier or lighter than the copies? Are they thicker or thinner?
Dear John,
suppose that I say that they are heavier, what that would mean? The same if I will say that they are lighter.
I could say that the copies are very well made, but still fake, and the potting is thinner.
Or, I could say that the copies are very well made, but still fake, and the potting is thicker.
Both answers are apparently contrasting, but actually both them could be correct.
All the above for repeating, once more, that there are no sure “keys”, such like the type of blue, weight, etc. One has to build up familiarity with genuine items, that’s all and it is the only tool.
But if you would like the exact answer to your question, I honestly do not know. I do not know if the two items was lighter, heavier, thicker, etc, because I have not paid attention to that. As said above, it is irrelevant, unless of course blatantly wrong.
Regards,
Giovanni
Peter has mentioned a few times that the porcelain is often but not always heavier in the copies.
Mark
The one and only real shortcut in determining fakes is a seller located in China 🙂
Birgit
Hi Mark,
This one doesn't seem heavy.. I just wanted to share this picture of a base from the foot rims on the bidamount website.. It's labelled ming. It is similar to the base on my vase ( a real mess). Any idea why its such a mess, if the same thing could have happened to my vase?
thanks in advance,
Tom
Hi Thomas,
These are not really my area.
Your foot looks man-made rather than from a kiln.
Perhaps @clayandbrush or others who collect these could answer this one.
Mark
Dear Tom,
excuse me, I see that in my two previous posts I have called you John instead of Tom.
Why that base is right for the Ming bowl and wrong for your fake Transitional vase? It is very simple, the answer is precisely written in my previous post. Please read and understand. There are no keys! One must know the matter.
The base of a type of ware is not the same of another type. Each type has his own features.
Look at genuine Transitional vases and see if the base is like that of the bowl. It is not.
The same, NOT ALL Ming bowls has that type of base. That is one type. It is correct for one type of Ming bowls.
It makes no sense comparing one thing with another of different type.
Regards,
Giovanni
@thomasumjohnson I see how someone might think these two bases have some similarities, but to others with more experience they are very different. If you look at the color, textures, etc, it is clear they are very different. I think looking at more authentic examples is the only way to learn the difference.
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