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Me again with questions about the foots. 🙂
One is a yongzheng doucai, anything wrong jumping out to you?
And the other is one for guangxu period. Does this seem right?
They look like good feet & marks, but Guangxu seal marks are a bit unusual- I can see a bit of the famille jaune dragon design - looks well rendered.
Why are you focused on the feet/mark given our earlier discussion of the importance of evaluating the entire piece?
@greeno107 just learning. More on the first one. Could be a copy, but not sure how to tell. Appreciate your insights.
@zhtail Thank you for posting the photos.
I’m not familiar with the vessel shape, a covered bottle. I’ll continue to look, but it seems an odd and utilitarian form for mark and period work.
The rendering is overly simple, and the color lacks the vibrance of other known Yongzheng doucai porcelain depicting bamboo.
Compare:
https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-4268612
@greeno107 yes, I agree with you that that’s where is concerning. This is the one in the museum, just as a reference for the form and rendering
@zhtail Thank you for the link.
I notice the proportions of your jar is more elongated while the museum form is more compressed.
Comparing color is difficult because photographs vary with lighting.
The amount of the open space and bamboo leaves is quite different- it changes the whole appearance of the two vessels.
They do not look to be of the same period.
However, I would like to see your jar in better light and close up of the enamel?
Just an observation, the National Palace Museum has a Kangxi blue & white example. If the Yongzheng emperor re-ordered a rather out of fashion item with newer modern enamels, then imperial records would record the order.
Throughout my collecting activities, I have always been highly suspicious of any imperial marks on any porcelain that has been offered to me for sale. It is important to remember that 99.9% of the time the ‘real thing’ is only handled by dealers with impeccable reputations or major auction houses. If you have the economic resources to pursue mark & period wares, then I urge you to cultivate a long term relationship with one or more international dealers or auction houses. They will happily guide you in collecting only the best.
However, if like the rest of us you have limited funds to pursue your collecting activities, I urge you to stop focusing on mark & period porcelain. Turn your attention to wares in the marketplace that attract your interest and are within your economic means. Start a study collection sourced from reputable vendors that can include less high end examples or better things with damage. You will never learn anything of true value about Chinese ceramics unless you can hold them in your hands and live with them for years. There are many 18th century porcelains that are still relatively affordable.
@greeno107 the size is actually pretty close, if not the same. Must be the pictures. Not sure how to take better pictures of the enamel, so let me know if the attached works.
@zhtail I think William has a strong argument... in 12 years of very aggressive searching (trust me, I go everywhere), I've only come across 1 genuine Yongzheng M & P piece, and only a handful of 19th c. M&P pieces...they are quite scarce.
As for your jar, I think the rendering looks well done, but quite different than the museum example...they do not appear to be of the same period.
Take a look:
@zhtail The funnel shaped neck is shorter in the museum example...longer in yours. Variation always concerns me, however, it is very pretty in the natural light.
Perhaps your example is a very well made Republic copy of imperial ware?
I would suggest you pursue having a museum or high end auction house take a look. Good luck!
@greeno107 totally agree! Rather this is a well made copy that I accepted. 🙂
Good advice given on this thread. I know many veterans suggest looking at as many "authentic" pieces as possible, but as a newbie, I've actually found looking at "fakes" (the good ones) just as constructive. I think by doing so keeps my guard up and reminds me of how realistic the fake renditions can be. And sometimes I find looking at an object "blind" (as in not knowing the source) is also a good way to learn because once you realize where it's coming from (Sotheby's instead of some unknown ebay seller), then biases start kicking in.
@singingteapot The learning process is interesting and unique for each person. I have found value in looking at both authentic items and fakes. My feeling is that it is good to understand the qualities of both. However, the further along I go, the more I find myself just wanting to see mainly the good stuff. Although, I do admit to being intrigued by some of the fakes and how impressive they can be, and so I do think it is worth staying aware of what reproductions are out there in the market, so as to better be able to recognize them quickly.
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