@avatar I’m not going to eBay it just yet. The jar you just posted looks similar in shape. I want to research more my theory is still that this jar was a grave loot. I have seen many graves traditions in Asian that have large cashes of pots. The unglazed inside lead me to this theory. I also am trying to learn more about the spike marks left on the foot. They seem to hold some clues. And how was the glaze made to look like wavy glass I have never seen this feature. So I need more data. Under a loop I can see the Kaolin and China stone separation I have not seen this on modern. If this pot is a fake it’s would be or is a excellent copy.

@johnshoe one other thing there is a debate with experts on what is considered Imperial. As one will except Imperial as something from Imperial kiln others will say it only imperial if it was used at the palace. So it get gray there and they will not call it Imperial unless there is another and providence you can have one with just a slight difference this will be called private order and the debate begins. Very tricky process. Now if information down the road comes up it was Imperial than it goes to that category and the same if not.

@lotusblack

Just a couple of thoughts regarding your conversation with John.  I can see you have already learned that large money items come with large pitfalls and that the rarified, top level collecting world is a political minefield.  It can certainly suck all the joy & fun out of collecting antiques.

I am also a little alarmed at your rather romantic mindset regarding museums, the donation process, and eventual display decisions.  These are some lessons I have have learned as a donor to a major museum.  First, all museums have collecting mission statements that department curators follow as they build out a particular collection of objects.  A curator will usually approach a collector in a particular field (say Chinese ceramics) to ask for a certain object that fills a void in the museum collection.  Sometimes it is something that the collector already owns, but mostly the request is for funds to purchase an object found by the curator.  
Second sad fact regarding museum collections of Chinese porcelain is that 95% of their collection is in storage all the time.  Generations of collectors have donated their entire collections to museums for exactly the reasons that you stated regarding your bowl.  If accepted by a major museum, your bowl might be exhibited for six months or so and then it goes into storage for years.  Curators control what is seen by the public.  Not in a million years would any museum let a group of school children handle a valuable object.  The occasional visiting scholar might be given permission to handle objects.  
Third sad fact about Chinese porcelain collections in museums is they are seen today as ‘money in the bank’.  Even before the pandemic, the major museums were sending large selections of their collections to auction houses.  I’m not talking about duplicates or extras here.  The Chicago Art Institute sold off an entire collection of Chinese white wares numbering in the hundreds from a collector who had spent decades putting together the collection before she donated it to the museum.  Today, every museum in the world is hurting financially and all are searching through storage for saleable items.  Chinese ceramics easily fit the bill.

Thanks, Craig.

I hope Giovanni sees this thread. He knows a lot about glazes from this period. 

@william thank you it looks like there is no easy way in this hobby or passion. Money is the root of all hardships.

See here is the problem with experts. Dear Brian your pot is a imitation of Song Dynasty Qingbai but unfortunately your pot is not the correct thickness as Song Qingbai and is larger than expected. So it is not Song period. Ok we all know that it’s not Song period yes we all know it’s imitating Song Qingbai glaze but they all over China copied this glaze into the early Ming period there is just a get out of jail card for every single piece.

@lotusblack

Brian,

I do not have any experience trying to sell major Chinese works however I have very recently been working on getting a painting, circa 1600 accepted by a few experts, and my resulting conversations have been very similar.  Interestingly all but one of the major auction houses ignored me, or completely tore it to pieces to tell me how it was not what I thought/ knew it to be.  Sure enough the one major auction house that took the time to discuss it with me, and look into my research, and was willing to possibly bring a previously unknown work up for sale, has managed to authenticate it, and put a staggeringly high estimate on it that they think is still very conservative, and it turns out that I was right from the start.  It can be very disheartening to speak to established experts when they tear down what you truly think is something special, and I can say, when the painting does sell next month I will be sipping my champagne giggling to my self, knowing that my convictions and my eye were spot on.

I hope that you do not find these experiences turn you off of the hunt and research, as there are still so many finds to find, and much to be learned from such treasures.

-Jeremy

@jbeer2121 You know when you have the piece modern doesn’t add up but know one seems to be asking the right questions. It’s frustrating. I agree I need to present a history hard to deny and go from there.

@jbeer2121  What an interesting story. I would love to know more details if you are ever ready to share more of your experience. It makes me think I need to evolve my process for identification of items, because currently I think that it is possible I could miss something the way I currently do things. My takeaway from yours and Brian's experiences is that I need to be more thorough and consult with multiple experts before throwing in the towel on an object. I wonder if there is or ever has been an assembled group of respected experts for the purpose of authentication of high level works? Kind of like a supreme court, etc. The group would not be linked to any auction house, etc. It could be an independent body whose judgements would carry significant clout. Maybe the members could even somehow be elected by collectors from forums such as this, Gotheborg, etc. I'd like to hear others thoughts about this idea. 

@johnshoe

In the fine arts world that role for a time was held by the scholars who put to together a ‘catalogue raisonne’ for individual artists.  In other words, a complete printed list of a particular artist’s lifetime output.  People would bring previously unknown artworks to these scholars for authentication and inclusion in the catalogue. Big money would ride on this process and guess what happened if the decision was not in favor of the legitimacy of the item?

They started getting the f__k sued out of them. 

@johnshoe

I can certainly share the details to a degree in a few months once the sale has happened.  What I can say is that I spent many months digging through historical archives and old auction sales tracking it down, as well as reading though the artist's ledgers to place him with the subject, and was able to put together a fairly thorough package that detailed what I thought it was.  I will say out of the maybe 35 people (dealers, curators, and auction houses) I contacted only three ever responded, and only one was willing to look further into it.  I am grateful, as is he, that he chose to take the dive with me, and I think there will be a few sour competitors of his after this is all said and done.

So my best advice would be keep reaching out to people, the more the merrier, have your research compiled in a concise manner, and be prepared to be shot down a heck of a lot more than anything else. 

As for a group of scholars, @william is totally correct, and I would add that there have been many groups that have authenticated pieces and though many exist still in some fashion, the monetary element rather dirties the pursuit of finding out the truth in a lot of cases... there is a value in keeping the "legitimate finds" to a minimum and the rarity up.

-Jeremy