Hello All,

Been following this thread with interest can't help with age or origin but it looks like to me this vase spent to long in the kiln for the secondary firing to set the decoration or perhaps it was in a kiln hot spot.

Just a thought

Regards

Michael.

Posted by: Julia

Ah, I see, I thought when you said traces of gilt that it was just the rim whereas all the flowers etc were gilt, thanks for trying to show it more clearly. 

It does look odd, it is quite a stiff pattern and the upper flowers look like daisies, too.  I had a blue and gilt bowl which had suffered a lot of loss to the gilding, but this is almost total.  What is strange though, is that the pattern is so complex, I can't begin to imagine how it looked.  Either the light or dark bits have to be gold but either way it means that so much has been lost, more than I would anticipate and far too evenly.  You expect wear in places that have been handled, but this looks almost completely gone.  Maybe it was badly cleaned?

Could it be an underglaze pattern - somehow?  Or is there clear evidence of over-glaze gilding?

I find the facetting unusual and I am not convinced the foot fits with the examples you have shown.  Maybe it is Japanese as Tam suggests or I am even wondering if it could be a late 19th c European item.

Basically, I don't know!  ? 

 

Hi Julia, there is a small production flaw on one side, where there was still traces of gilt left, so I don't think this is an underglaze pattern. But you could be right, maybe it was cleaned badly, even with extensive handling you would think that there would be more gilt left in spots that were not directly in contact with skin.

I'm a bit surprised that people keep saying the foot looks weird, it looks exactly (or as exactly as you would expect from a hand made item) like the feet on the two catawiki sprinklers, as well as the one recently sold by lauritz.com. ? 

I think it's a Kangxi export sacrificial blue (Ji Lan) with overglaze gold-gilt prunus pattern. It's a pity that the gold-gilding lost during the years.

Posted by: Xin_FAWIS

I think it's a Kangxi export sacrificial blue (Ji Lan) with overglaze gold-gilt prunus pattern. It's a pity that the gold-gilding lost during the years.

It really is. The bits of decoration still visible look like they would have been pretty good.

Here is a little picture where you can really see how dark the blue is, compared to the blue on the Prunus jar next to it, and other pieces in my humble collection.

Dear Michael,

I think there is little doubt about it, your blue and gilt-decorated water sprinkler looks to be of the Kangxi period, as Xin has said. The gilt on such objects, fired at a lower temperature, easily rubs away over the years. Whenever you find something on which the original gilt remains largely intact, it's certainly worth buying.

I also like the look of your small vase with (is it?) a flambé glaze.

Best wishes,

Alan

Sorry, I should have explained why I felt the base was not the same.  Basically, on your item, the foot rim appears (I say that because I don't know for sure) to be shallower than the others, in other words, it looks like within the footrim of the other vases (where the foot rim is visible) you can actually see the base of the vase itself, as though the vase is sitting on a supportive ring.  Whereas on yours, because it appears narrower and shallower, it is seems the area inside the foot rim is part of a solid base which is supporting the underside of the vase.

I hope that makes sense and it doesn't necessarily mean anything, it was just my thinking aloud that made me comment on it.

I'm glad that Xin and Alan have given a firm period, that is exciting.  Of course, that is another reason for the loss of so much gilt, it is an old item and has had hundreds of years in which to lose it.   ? 

Dear Michael,

I have a vase by one of the better British potteries Pilkingtons who made some wonderful luster glazed items. It has lost half of its luster decoration to one side vertical from top to bottom.  The reason I mention this is that it has that ghost of the pattern as does yours. It has been drilled in the makers mark to signify it was sold as a second. This was caused by one side of the vase getting to hot in it's second firing, this means the luster was lost at the factory and not in normal wear. We all see items where the enamel or gilding has worn with age but that does not normally leave a ghost impression.  Not saying anything departmental about your beautiful vase I would be proud to own it, just offering a possible reason why it has that Ghost effect of it's decoration.

Regards

Michael 

Dear Michael,

I have a vase by one of the better British potteries Pilkingtons who made some wonderful luster glazed items. It has lost half of its luster decoration to one side vertical from top to bottom.  The reason I mention this is that it has that ghost of the pattern as does yours. It has been drilled in the makers mark to signify it was sold as a second. This was caused by one side of the vase getting to hot in it's second firing, this means the luster was lost at the factory and not in normal wear. We all see items where the enamel or gilding has worn with age but that does not normally leave a ghost impression.  Not saying anything departmental about your beautiful vase I would be proud to own it, just offering a possible reason why it has that Ghost effect of it's decoration.

Regards

Michael 

Dear Michael,

Nice collection. Can you show us the Flambé vase with elefant ears behind the dark blue one? It's very interesting.

Thank you 🙂

Xin

Posted by: Alan Fletcher

Dear Michael,

I think there is little doubt about it, your blue and gilt-decorated water sprinkler looks to be of the Kangxi period, as Xin has said. The gilt on such objects, fired at a lower temperature, easily rubs away over the years. Whenever you find something on which the original gilt remains largely intact, it's certainly worth buying.

I also like the look of your small vase with (is it?) a flambé glaze.

Best wishes,

Alan

Hi Alan, it is indeed a small flambé glaze vase, one of a pair I found a couple of years ago. They kickstarted my interest in Chinese porcelain. I've included a picture below where you can see them both.

Posted by: Brettm

Dear Michael,

I have a vase by one of the better British potteries Pilkingtons who made some wonderful luster glazed items. It has lost half of its luster decoration to one side vertical from top to bottom.  The reason I mention this is that it has that ghost of the pattern as does yours. It has been drilled in the makers mark to signify it was sold as a second. This was caused by one side of the vase getting to hot in it's second firing, this means the luster was lost at the factory and not in normal wear. We all see items where the enamel or gilding has worn with age but that does not normally leave a ghost impression.  Not saying anything departmental about your beautiful vase I would be proud to own it, just offering a possible reason why it has that Ghost effect of it's decoration.

Regards

Michael 

Hi Michael, that sounds interesting, do you happen to have a picture of this effect? The pictures I've posted of the pattern are enhanced a bit, in normal light conditions it can be hard to spot the pattern, unless you really look for it. In the artificial light in my light-box it was more clear and post-processing in Photoshop made it even more visible.

It is interesting that you mentioned that thing about the temperature, because I have seen other Chinese blue glazed vases with gilt, where the gilt is partially gone but there is absolutly no trace of the lost pattern. I don't know if there has been done any studies about that, but it could certainly point towards the pattern of the gilt fusing more deeply with the glaze at higher temperatures, but at a certain point burning off entirely.

Posted by: Xin_FAWIS

Dear Michael,

Nice collection. Can you show us the Flambé vase with elefant ears behind the dark blue one? It's very interesting.

Thank you 🙂

Xin

Thank you! ?

I actually posted that vase a couple of months back in another topic. I won it on one of the german Lauritz.com auctions.

The pictures from the auction are included below (I have unfortunately not come around to taking my own pictures of it yet).

Hi Michael,

Sorry but that vase is packed away for my impending house move, it won't see light of day until January. Will post a photo in the new year.

Cheers

Michael

Posted by: Julia

Sorry, I should have explained why I felt the base was not the same.  Basically, on your item, the foot rim appears (I say that because I don't know for sure) to be shallower than the others, in other words, it looks like within the footrim of the other vases (where the foot rim is visible) you can actually see the base of the vase itself, as though the vase is sitting on a supportive ring.  Whereas on yours, because it appears narrower and shallower, it is seems the area inside the foot rim is part of a solid base which is supporting the underside of the vase.

I hope that makes sense and it doesn't necessarily mean anything, it was just my thinking aloud that made me comment on it.

I'm glad that Xin and Alan have given a firm period, that is exciting.  Of course, that is another reason for the loss of so much gilt, it is an old item and has had hundreds of years in which to lose it.   ? 

Hi Julia, you are right, most of the examples I posted links to had higher and thinner footrims, only the catawiki pair and the lauritz one had the more "flat" and wide footrims. I'm not sure what that could mean, maybe one type is older than the other, but still inside the kangxi period, or simply a different approach by different potters to making a vessel with that shape. ?

I've included an example below that I found during my research efforts. If I remember correctly, it is in a museum in Turkey and has silver work. I imagine that mine has probably also had something similar installed at its mouth when it was in use.

Posted by: Brettm

Hi Michael,

Sorry but that vase is packed away for my impending house move, it won't see light of day until January. Will post a photo in the new year.

Cheers

Michael

Looking forward to it! Thanks Michael! ?