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@julia Julia, maybe you can post a link to (article, post, what ever is there) where I can read about Chinese imported porcelain to the U.K. which was overpainted after in UK/London, etc.? I will gladly absorb such information.
I don't have a particularly great article to link you to, but much of the blue and white porcelain imported to Europe was over-decorated there. I think the earlier porcelain (untill about 1700-1710) was mainly done by the Dutch, after that it was decorated in England too, Also occasionally you will find Italian or French decoration on Chinese export, some of which is spectacular... I'll link a few.
The plate, just the blue under-glaze decoration and the porcelain, is certainly Chinese and late Kangxi/ Yongzheng, however, everything else appears to be European, best guess is English as I have seen the man with the sabre on other English decorated pieces, just never in this configuration.
The Europeans struggled to produce porcelain this well until about 1740-50 or so. I will photograph and post a bit later, a late 18th century plate I have probably English ( possibly Liverpool, Derby or Coalport) that is as close to Chinese as it gets in my opinion, but still just lacks the quality. I can also include a very early Worcester Queens gold pattern tea pot from a set I have, that copies a Yongzheng pattern.
Cheers,
Jeremy
Spectacular European decorated Chinese Porcelain:
https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/A_1924-0717-1
https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/A_Franks-1442_1
Amsterdam and English decorated wares:
https://www.patergratiaorientalart.com/home/1440
https://www.patergratiaorientalart.com/home/2865
https://www.patergratiaorientalart.com/home/2863
Hey Julia,
Another Ebay France find, it was listed with as Imari or something, I don't recall, but I suspect no one really fought me for it because it wasn't fully Chinese, and it was so odd.
It is pretty interesting to read up on the formations of the early English firms, many that most people assume were Victorian period, were around much much earlier, in some cases mid 18th century, and just kind of bought out smaller firms, or consolidated into becoming the companies we know now.
I'll try and find on my hard drive this PDF I have with a solid write up on the early formations of Derby, Worcester, and the Staffordshire Potteries... I just haven't a clue where I've saved it.
Jeremy
Thanks a lot Jeremy! Outstanding objects in a museums..Wow.
Thanks Jeremy, that would be interesting. I sell a lot of UK pottery, in fact I recently sent a piece of Spode to the US, but I don't usually deal with Coalport pieces as I only come across the later wares. I love 18th c English wares and would enjoy reading the pdf if you can find it, but no rush!
@Lucky I don't have anything that I can think of to send you but if I do, I will. On the links to the Shangri-la pieces on ebay there is an interesting write-up (very short) on Amsterdam Bont. This is the text, I hope they won't mind my copying it here:
We take a look at Amsterdams Bont porcelain from China. A relatively unknown niche of Chinese porcelain from ca 1680-1740 that was partly decorated in Europe. Because mainstream Chinese collectors have yet to discover the historical significance of these wares they are relatively easy to find in Holland. While also being highly interesting and of often super quality and with an amazing array of decorations. Amsterdams Bont is a name given to porcelain partly decorated in the Netherlands (most likely in cities like Delft, Haarlem, Makkum). Because Amsterdam was at this moment in time the trade centre of the western world and also of the porcelain trade a lot of this over enamelling was probably commissioned by Amsterdam merchants, to reap higher profits on otherwise boring Chinese wares. The name Amsterdam Bont probably derives from the fact that these type of decorated ware was sold by Amsterdam Merchants. Amsterdam Bont consists of either blanc or under glaze blue decorated Chinese porcelain of basic quality, that was later enhanced with red and sometimes other colours in the Netherlands. It must not be mistaken for other type of Chinese & Japanese blanc wares decorated in Europe. Those we simply call European Decorated Chinese porcelain. Amsterdam Bont really is easily recognisable by its colour and style. An interesting side note is that a similar process of overdecorating with red was done in London in more or less the same colours.
Method of manufacturing.
This enhancemend was done on “petit feux” or small fire at a lower temperature. This technique of baking enamels on a lower temperature that was perfected in the Delft around 1670-1680 to compete with the colourfull Japanese porcelain of the time. At the turn of the 17th c Chinese porcelain was cheaper than its Japanese counterpart and by overglazing Chinese porcelain with red it was easy for the Dutch to create a `Imari` feel on the Chinese wares. Catering to the huge craving for imari coloured porcelain in the West at the time. At that time blue _ white porcelain was relatively well known as was blue and white delftware. It was the addition of different colours that sparked huge interest. Everybody wanted porcelain with red in it, and that was what the merchants were giving their customers with this Amsterdam Bont decorations. One must imagine that sometimes a VOC ship brought home hundreds of thousands of pieces of porcelain, often with 1000’s of pieces decorated in the same way (See for example the Geldermalsen or “Nanking” Cargo) . So a simple blue and white bowl could easily be increased in value by enhancing its looks.
@lucky I was just looking at floral decoration in this wonderful book, which John (or maybe Jeremy?) posted a while back, when I came across a bit on decorating blanks and clobbered. It may not open on the correct page, but it starts on 154.
@lucky I was just looking at floral decoration in this wonderful book, which John (or maybe Jeremy?) posted a while back, when I came across a bit on decorating blanks and clobbered. It may not open on the correct page, but it starts on 154.
Thanks a lot Julia!
@julia I have some old English porcelain I'd love your opinion about.
I am no expert, John, but always happy to take a look. You can send me photos here [email protected] if you want. 😊
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