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Hey Folks,
Here's a really cool plate that just arrived, I do think I have a grasp of what it is, but I would be curious to hear other's thoughts before I expound.
Cheers,
Jeremy
That's interesting. I will have aquick guess: does it fall into the category of Amsterdam Bont? Only maybe decorated in Spain or South America?
I'm guessing early 18th C Chinese for the Japanese market?
Good guesses!
So it is a western decorated plate, I think the dating is around 1720 or so, and the only example I have found with this design is on Bob and Freek's (Shangrila guy's) site. It seems it was decorated in London.
Pretty neat, and its interesting you mention Japanese market John, i think the decoration looks very Japanese, especially the man with the sword.
Here is the only similar I have found, different Chinese plate design but nearly identical over decoration.
Cheers,
Jeremy
Ahhh, I was actually on their site the other day reading about "Amsterdam Bont" and the general use of the term, so it was in my mind but I don't recall that plate. I thought the building was a church and palm trees reflected the location it was painted in! 😊 I get it, now, this is the London artist's take on chinoiserie.
It is very nice, where did you get it? You are finding some nices pieces!
Probably British made imari plate. I found this example to compare some of the details and colors. Sorry, I can't stand Europe porcelain to google & to search for something 🤣
https://moorabool.com/product/spode-dollar-pattern-imari-plate-pat-283-circa-1825/
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201313892326
Funnily enough, I was just looking on their site at something else related to a post I made elsewhere on this site.
Personally, and others may not agree, I think the plate you posted is completely different. I had to delete my first response as it was too late to edit it and I realised that you actually posted 2 different items not just the Spode piece, which made my comment sound odd. 😊
I didn't realise Coalport existed so early, I assumed it was late Victorian onwards.
@julia Julia, of course I might be wrong, but this is not Amsterdam clobbered plate for sure. If this is not British, then should something else within Europe. Germany? No. Italy? No. Spain? No. What else who possibly can make nice and quality porcelain back in 19th century in Europe..? This is my thinking "chain".
Plate which I did posted, which is listed on ebay, has kangxi double ring mark..That's a good start. Border, and colors looks alike as well when compared. Pattern, yes different, but there are many clues there to look at.
[/quote
This is not Amsterdam clobbered porcelain for sure. If this is not British, then should be someone else within Europe..Germany? No. Italy? No. Spain? No...Who else could make a nice, quality plate back in 18/19th century.
My plates which I did post as a references, yes pattern is different..Boarder looks identical, close colors, has a kangxi double ring mark..Foot rim?
P.S. some strange things going today with bidamount server. Lagging..not posting full posts...
Sorry about deleting my post it just sounded odd! I will quote yours to put it back in the right order!
Am I understanding correctly that you think that Jeremy's plate is not Chinese overpainted in London even though they did this?
(I am making such a mess of the site today, I have deleted another post because I can't get my comment to show outside the quouted one).
Why don't you think it is Chinese porcelain?
Sorry about deleting my post it just sounded odd! I will quote yours to put it back in the right order!
Am I understanding correctly that you think that Jeremy's plate is not Chinese overpainted in London even though they did this?
(I am making such a mess of the site today, I have deleted another post because I can't get my comment to show outside the quouted one).
Julia, I don't have any information in my head on Chinese blank porcelain which was imported to Britain and then painted. I know, that British they have (or had), rich history when making porcelain and factories which used to make a good looking porcelain..No idea on import - at least, I never did heard about it..It's never too late to learn something new I guess 🙂
@julia because pattern looks more European rather Chinese. Unless plate was imported and overpainted.
Yes, this plate was over-painted in Europe. Lots of that was done in Amsterdam, but the link Jeremy posted showed one that was done in London. It is sometimes referred to as clobbered, sometimes as Amsterdam Bont. Although, that last term should only be used for Dutch decoration, but as it is hard to tell sometimes where the final over-painting was done, then it is all too easy to use that term as a kind of catch-all. However, they are not the same thing. I find the links on Gotheborg helpful as I keep forgetting:
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