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Good evening to everyone/ day, firstly I’d like to hope everyone is safe and well and the same to your friends, family and loved ones.
So, have purchased this by using the advice from Mr Coombs and others. Looking mainly at the colours of the tree’s, shading of the clothes, details and expression of the faces. I really love the colours and believe the palette used Is in line with the period.. Thoughts please?
I originally brought it on the opinion it might be Qing period (late) just due to the vibrancy of the use of colour, but not sure?
If you can assist and advise, honesty is the best policy, brought on eBay for $350 from a lady in Maryland. I live in the UK.
Dims : 15-1/4” X 10-1/2”.
Thanks for your time and stay safe and well all!
Tim
Hi, did you get Peter's opinion on this panel? To me it looks new , I've never seen an old plaque with such a dark/black back, as though it was treated with soot.
There are no signs of wear or age, and the way the faces have been painted is different from C18th or C19th examples, and the enamels are bright but don't have the same effects in terms of translucency and painting technique as older pieces of porcelain.
A genuine panel of this size from the qianlong period would fetch ten times or more the price you paid , even late qing or republic panels go for much higher.
The best advice always , if you are new to buying chinese porcelain , is only buy items off Peter's weekly newsletter or his global auction selections. There are just too many fakes out there, and frankly genuine items on ebay or other sites, rarely get missed and go for a song.
tam
- @tam18
- Thanks for your response, I didn’t ask for Peters opinion on this occasion and appreciate your pint with regards to never finding something on eBay as everyone is looking, however the lady I purchased it from isn’t selling a load of fake Chinese goods, not from her selling history (like some who seem to have the entire museum For sale..)
The dark back was how it was When I removed it from a frame (completed by a gallery in Maryland).
I'm not saying it’s Qianlong, but 19th century maybe? It has been enamelled, it’s not glossy, you can only see the actual enamel if I hold it in the light at an angle..
I know you can find GEMS on eBay, I have found a letter from 1794 written by on of King Louis XVI personal bodyguard. (That is published). That cost me £7.50 and gave me a joy to learn about the life of him.
so I appreciate people’s thinking that no one will sell something of worth for a low sum, but the fact it wasn’t even listed as The 8 Daoism immortals, seems like you’re not selling it for profit. Listed as unknown date unknown artist.
The colouring of the leaves are consistent with examples I have watched, however the skin colouring is much darker and hence suggesting 19th century?
Each of the 8 immortals are holding exactly what each should, the rock on the bottom right is detailed and looks to have depth.
I appreciate your opinion and if 19th century, then we agree. Just don’t always rule out eBay.
Letter I found on eBay below - Not Asian in any regards..
Hi Tim,
Late Qing or more so republican period plaques are being produced in China today. The standard of some is of or even better than the masters themselves. The only downside is normally either or both the read mark and or the calligraphy styles.
My thoughts are that your plaque although pleasing to the eye is a fairly modern interpretation. When I say modern I mean post 1960's. It's very difficult to pin down an exact period. In addition I cite the reasons as already outlined by Tam18.
I have seen a few (not many) with a deep black soot on the back that were republic. I don't like the bluish - green glaze. Nor do I like the bright enamels. The glaze looks too perfect. However that maybe the angle of the pictures etc.
Most republic period produced plaques would often have very slight indifferences within the glaze ie glaze bubbles/uneven etc. However not all have this feature. This is due to the slight temperature difference within the wood fired kiln. This problem is not evident with gas fired kilns etc used today.
I get the feeling that the artist was trying to emulate Wang Dafan or Wang Qi.
Just my thoughts. I hope Birgit @ Shinigami weighs in with a opinion or two etc.
Mark
Thanks to everyone for their input, as I mentioned I purchased it as it had been well painted and appreciate it to be ‘modern’, but nothing wrong with a modern piece of well painted enamel.
As I had mentioned, I thought the vibrant colours are a giveaway that it’s more modern and the colouring of the skin.. And I do take on board your advice and especially with the vastness of fakes out there.
the seal marks on the item, I believe they’re the ‘Ying’ and ‘Yang’ marks, is that correct?
- also does anyone know the inscription by chance, I have tried myself using a few translator apps but they’re not consistent enough although I believe it does Mention Qing... but as I say not 100%. As mentioned by Mark, the artist was trying to emulate another artist but from a modern perspective and as mentioned, it wasn’t listed as trying to be antique in anyway.
- thank you all again for your time and knowledge. Tim
picture of the glaze in the light, too flat for some of the Characters so obviously gas fired, correct, would you say?
Hi Tim,
Coal and pine furnace were in full operation up to early 1950's. Replaced gradually by gas fired. Just to muddy the waters I have read that they have started again with some porcelain. This is because the porcelain of the earlier period cannot imo be replicated today using gas. The wood/coal have imo have a distinctive different appeal to those found in modern kilns. It's very interesting study. Something I am currently engaged in.
I am not 100% sure about the read marks that you mentioned. However I have seen similar marks used on porcelain from the 1960's through to today. It's a type of generic marking etc.
I can't read or speak the dialog however George @gfhandel does and if he signs in I am sure he will be able to help you.
Regardless of being modern it's still a pleasing view imo. Would look great on the wall etc. The price you paid is or about the price one would expect to pay etc.
Mark
Hi Tim -
Not really my area so I'll defer to the posted comments from more experience members in this field ...
Just to confirm what Mark@imperialfinegems mentioned in regards to the differing colourent/glaze effects produced by modern gas fired kilns and those from older coal/wood fired kilns ...
Mark is quite right, I understand that a small number of kilns, base on old designs, built from old material's and wood/coal fired are now in operation - most secretly and far away from 'prying eyes' - in hills around Jingdezhen ...
These have been constructed and fired specifically to try and reproduced the glaze/firing effects seen on authintic Song, Jin, Yuan and Ming wares ...
Stuart
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