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Adams Asian Art
 Adams Asian Art
(@imperialfinegems)
Mark Adams
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7018
23/09/2021 10:43 pm  

@lep

'jade' by Roger Keverne is a excellent reference book. Great images with expert commentary by various experts in their respective fields. Freely available and is not expensive. Cost anywhere between $40-$80. Available on ebay. Highly recommend for new starters. 

Jade from the Neolithic to the Qing period by Jessica Rawson is also a great book. Very popular with museums and auctions. More technical than Roger's book but not so great on images as they are smaller and in black and white. Can be pricey. Cost about $120-250. Buy this after studying Roger's book first imo. Can be bought from ebay every now and then. 

Any books by the renowned dealer Sam Bernstein are great reading. In my opinion one of the world's heavyweights in jades with phenomenal experience and expertise. 

The two most commonly used substitutes are serpentine and bowenite. There are many others but these are the two main ones. 

Serpentine can be tricky if you don't know as it's hardness (Mohs 3-6) can be similar to jades  but not quite there. A simple scratch with a needle (not a nail or hardened steel) will determine if it's jade or softer material like serpentine. The mark or line will be white which can be easily wiped away. This line/mark indicates that the material is softer than the needle. If it black or silvery black the the opposite. It's harder than the needle and highly probable to be nephrite or jadeite. 

Hold the item up to a strong light. If you see blotches or wavery lines thens it's either serpentine or agate.

Bowenite is another favorite used. Can be a harder material on the Mohs scale and therefore tricky to determine. It's s got very highly translucency in areas not seen in jade. It also has white spots or blotches. So if you see highly translucent areas with mikly white blotches then run!

Glass is a obvious one. Often you will see seams/joinery and bubbles. Often sold as pendants or bangles. You may need a loupe. Which by the way is essential tool for all jade collectors. 

These are just a couple of pointers you can use. They apply to most of the substitutes you are likely to encounter that are being offered as jade. 

Be very careful with sellers from China who use fanciful names for their so-called jades. Avoid eBay sellers who names sound like a restaurant. Don't trust the certificates in Chinese. Some are good but most are not as they don't have the expertise/equipment used by GIA. Especially when it comes to jadeite jade! Most, 95% plus of jadeite on the market today is either fake or has been treated to enhance the quality/colour. 

It's imperative that you handle as much genuine jade as you can. Obviously you can't with museums etc. But you can with sotheby's, christies or bonhams.

After awhile you will be able to determine the differences etc. Then it's time to move onto to other simulants used as outlined in the two books I mentioned above.

It's best in the beginning to not try your luck with unknown sellers like eBay, etsy etc etc. You will in all probability end up with fake jade. Only buy from reputable sources. Obviously you will be paying market price. But at least it will be genuine and you can learn from handling them.

Jades is a very specialized area. It will take many years to master. Just because a dealer knows porcelain does not necessarily mean that he know jades. 

I hope this snippet of information is helpful to you. 

Mark 

This post was modified 4 years ago by Adams Asian Art

   
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dcolosio
 dcolosio
(@dcolosio)
Reputable Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 241
Topic starter 23/09/2021 10:44 pm  

 Here are a few more pics Mark.. (I did the best I could) my camera is notoriously bad with white close ups for some reason. Anyways.. heres a few more of the rat, a couple better of the disk, and a small bangle type I have had laying around that is about the size of a ring. Might be the same material as the disk. This is great!! I really don't need to keep these around if they are throwaways. 🙂

  Again, very grateful for the help Mark. Hope I'm not frustrating ya, it's not my intention at all. Just wanting to try to pound it into my thick skull what jade is. hahaha I'm trying... lol

  Thanks my friend! (P.S. sorry, somehow the little bangle first pic got mixed up in the order...)

  Doug

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This post was modified 4 years ago by dcolosio

   
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Adams Asian Art
 Adams Asian Art
(@imperialfinegems)
Mark Adams
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7018
23/09/2021 11:14 pm  

@dcolosio,

Hi Doug,

In my opinion your rat/other is serpentine. 

The disc/bi could be jade as well as the bangle. But the images are not good enough. 50/50. I suspect that the bi has been treated. If the bangle is jade then it's of a lower quality. Which is positive in that respect. 

Jades etc are difficult to take images of at the best of times. Especially when using a mobile phone.

Even if they are not jades I would not throw them away. They are useful to study and learn from. 

No problem Doug. Always willing to help people who have a genuine interest in collecting jade. 

Mark 

This post was modified 4 years ago by Adams Asian Art

   
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Luís Pereira
 Luís Pereira
(@lep)
Prominent Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 422
24/09/2021 5:14 am  

@imperialfinegems amazing insight. thanks. yes, I never buy antique stuff coming from China or with restaurant names!  😉 

the needle test was interesting. I see that jade is quite risky for a newbie to buy online, rather than have the piece in his hand. 

👍


   
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dcolosio
 dcolosio
(@dcolosio)
Reputable Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 241
Topic starter 28/09/2021 10:05 am  

 Wow  thanks Mark... I am glad it's not just me who thinks it is incredibly difficult to focus in on jade type objects (especially when they have some translucency).. The disk and bangle are both from an earlier time than the rat.. probably 70s or 80s I think (judging from the estate jewelry collections they came to me from) .. That would make sense.. The rat had a rather new looking cord attached that I took off as well. Gosh I was watching a lengthy youtube video of a Professor in China talking about the composition of jades and related minerals.. wow.. I didn't realize how complicated it gets.. seems even Jade is not all Jade sometimes.. I guess it gets very tricky when you get into the very expensive colors and hues.. materials..My brain went blank about 1/2 of the way through the lecture!!! Nothing beats experience and time and there is no way to get that quickly.  I once again find myself feeling grateful that I know people like yourself and the people here at the forum!!  

 

 Thank you so much Mark!!   Best wishes for an excellent day my friend!  🙂

 

 Doug

 

 P.S. I have noticed sometimes my e-mail doesn't alert me when I get responses here and sometimes it does... Sorry about the delay. 🙂 Cheers!


   
Ming1449, Adams Asian Art and Sharon P reacted
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Adams Asian Art
 Adams Asian Art
(@imperialfinegems)
Mark Adams
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7018
28/09/2021 11:45 am  

@dcolosio,

Hi Doug,

Thank you for your reply and kind words.. Very much appreciated.

Do you have a link to that lecture you referred to?

Regards,

Mark 


   
ReplyQuote
dcolosio
 dcolosio
(@dcolosio)
Reputable Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 241
Topic starter 28/09/2021 12:21 pm  

 Yes Mark.. I didn't realize there are soooo many videos out there on Youtube about this subject. It appears to be a rather popular subject these days.. lol 

 I am still trying to understand parts of this seminar.. My brain is gonna explode! ROFL!!  

 

  Here's what I was watching...

 

 

 Wishing you best of all my friend! 🙂

 

 Doug


   
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Kangxi vases, Kangxi dishes and chargers, Kangxi ritual pieces, Kangxi scholar's objects, Qianlong famille rose, Qianlong enamels, Qianlong period paintings, Qianlong Emporer's court, Fine porcelain of the Yongzheng period. Chinese imperial art, Ming porcelain including Jiajing, Wanli, Xuande, Chenghua as well as Ming jades and bronzes. 

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The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art

A free Asian art discussion board and Asian art message board for dealers and collectors of art and antiques from China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam and the rest of Asia. Linked to all of the BidAmount Asian art reference areas, with videos from plcombs Asian Art and Bidamount on YouTube.  Sign up also for the weekly BidAmount newsletter and catalogs of active eBay listing of Chinese porcelain, bronze, jades, robes, and paintings. 

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