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@yinchris So, it appears that your plates are likely modern made if the seller deals in both reproductions and genuine antiques. Iin my defense, to quote my first post....
The women seem to be renderd in a 19th c. manner, but the mark and underside seem unconvincing to me as late Qing or Republic.
The underside and mark never looked right to me, but the artistry did look just fine.
Looking at the link that Mark posted, I would have to agree that the piece is likely modern. However, the criticism that the face is not done correctly for 19th c. work because the hair and face is just not true.
Here's a comparison with a 19th c. washbasin depicting the same woman as in your plate (although the woman on the basin has the addition of gold gilt hair ornaments).
Now before anyone says the two are not exactly the same....to be clear, I know that. I'm strictly talking about the style/manner of rendering the solid black hair, the bulbous head, and facial features. This is just one example I've come across - it is a known late 19th c. manner of rendering women's faces.
Hi Tim, in old Chinese pieces the hair is never just a black mass. There are almost always details in it. Not just the gold but fine white lines dividing several parts of the hairstyle as can be seen on the left one of your pictures. Also the color black itself wasn't a really dark black before the 1930s. The copy is almost perfect but the didn't go the extra mile and dedicated some work to the hair.
Hmmm I must disagree with you Tim @Greeno107. I totally agree with the post by Birgit @shinigami.
Please look carefully. Notice how you can see the waves of the hair ever so slightly. Notice the tiny strands of hair. Note how the artist has cleverly mixed the tones of colour. I submit most importantly the blackish-brown hair. Not jet black!
The one being the center of discussion is simply done in jet black. No strands. Looks like a blob of sprayed hair.
The one from Christies you can clearly see the difference. One is carefully painted. The other is not.
The other one looks like something out of the 'mickey mouse club'.
I bet if you held them in your hand side by side you would quickly see the difference.
Mark
This post was modified 2 years ago 2 times by Adams Asian Art
In the Christies example you can see three buns of hair divided by a subtle white line. Another line is behind the ear. The very black mass without details is something I had always attributed to Japanese porcelain. It first appeared in China in the 1960/70s.
Admittedly, hair has not been a major focal study of mine, but last night and this morning, I took a good close look at some examples stemming from the Kangxi (famille verte), Yongzheng/Qianlong, early 19th, late 19th, and Republic (1st half of the 20th c.) on Christie's, Sotheby's, several museums, and even examples posted here in BidAmount.
There are numerous examples of hair rendered showing solid hair with no detail. Now, if you consider a seperation in the black (what looks like a white line) where the artist lifted his brush, and painted a bow, bun, or something, and left a fine white space between the main portion of the hair on the head and the adornment (for lack of a better word), I do see that occurs, but not always.
The added detail of 'seperations' in the hair seem to be more indicative of the hair style, as well as the quality and size of the porcelain piece, not the age.
As you might recall, I said in my second post to this thread, "The second photo is the better of the two, showing the delicate blush of the face, beautiful upturned eye, and the vibrant and confident brush strokes of a quality Canton porcelain piece."
Canton wares, and especially rose medallion wares, show woman with sold black hair, and as of yet, I have not encountered one that shows the fine lines as you describe.
Here's just a sample of some woman's hair from various periods that I feel demonstrate my point. I put the period and the source below each image.
I did not post images of hair from Canton and rose medallion pieces that have solid black hair because they are far too numerous... you can just Google it if you want to see how the hair is just a solid black mass.
Taking a look at Yin's plate after looking at so many other examples of porcelains that depict woman, I agree with all of you that the plate is modern...
The mark and underside never matched in style with the Canton style portrait. And, specific to the portrait, the features of the face do seem a bit too exaggerated, and as pointed out, the enamel colors in the fence are off.
What a cool bowl! If you enlarge the pictures you’ll see that the hair is not just a black mass. There’s some structure in it. The painter followed the waves of the hairstyle with his brush instead of just dabbing on a black mass.
I have to apologize though that I overlooked Rose Mandarin. In that case the hair was indeed just a black blob. But Rose Mandarin is easy to identify, the only fakes probably being the 1960s Macao ones with the awful pink colors.
Thanks guys, I have learned a lot from this and accepted that mines are reproductions. Just for the clarification, the hairs of my ladies are jet black, but not blobs, I can see each strokes from the reflection, but have a hard time to catch it on camera. Maybe others can help?
Thanks guys, I have learned a lot from this and accepted that mines are reproductions. Just for the clarification, the hairs of my ladies are jet black, but not blobs, I can see each strokes from the reflection, but have a hard time to catch it on camera. Maybe others can help?
If you can tell that it's younger based solely on the design elements, I think it's fair to think of the piece as "in the manner of" rather than "reproduction." It keeps some of the enjoyment in the object.
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Kangxi vases, Kangxi dishes and chargers, Kangxi ritual pieces, Kangxi scholar's objects, Qianlong famille rose, Qianlong enamels, Qianlong period paintings, Qianlong Emporer's court, Fine porcelain of the Yongzheng period. Chinese imperial art, Ming porcelain including Jiajing, Wanli, Xuande, Chenghua as well as Ming jades and bronzes.
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Basic Rules For the BidAmount Asian Art Forum: Talk about whatever you want. You can even discuss and offer things that are for sale if they are authentic. Maximum image file size per post is 2 MB. Images of 700pxl x 700pxl are optimal if saved at a medium resolution. Be respectful of others and enjoy yourself. Click the YouTube link for a brief tutorial on using the forum. You can also EMBED Videos by cutting and pasting from You-Tube, Vimeo etc. 
