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@jbeer2121 Jeremy I agree and disagree. lol I have spent some time in my books today and with my personal collection also and have come to my own opinion on the platter. I believe the platter to be late18th century to early 19th century but I am convinced it was later painted in the early Tongzhi period give or take 5 years. There are many reasons for this opinion and that I don't believe it to be modern. The platter was not finished and this is one of the clues it was also not burnished this is an important clue and the burnt red enamel is a really telling clue. First old gilding was done with pure gold no modern gilding is done with pure gold powder I have researched gilding extensively you cannot burnish modern gilding. But you can burnt old gilding a hundred years later and it will shine like new. If you look under a loop on old gild you will actually see the powder and if heated to high in the kiln it will clobb together and form micro nuggets. I have burnished a spear to demonstrate. During the second half the painters became lazy and did not burnish but I don't think this was the case here. I believe before this platter was completed something happen that stopped the manufacturing. The rebellion at the time where porcelain kilns were destroyed and other methods of retrieving porcelain was well documented this would explain the use of an unpainted platter from the 18th century. During this same time America had an interest in Chinese export but competition with the Japanese forced the Chinese to make desperate moves. So the second clue is the burnt red enamel this enamel was very well used during this period I have several mark and period pieces the brown you see on the platter is actually washed down burnt enamel this practice was also used a lot in the Tongzhi period. Now we move on the the green enamel of the water this enamel was very popular for leaves during the same time. The Tongzhi period was also very well known for the brown boarder almost every piece I own has this feature. Why I believe the platter itself is 18th century it very clear to me It is very well potted the bottom is smooth and the edges are well done the glaze contraction are again a trait of this period. So this is my conclusion and what makes the most since to me.
Tongzhi mark with burnt red enamel
Brown lip and washed brown line next to burnt red line
area of gilding I burnished
Few more pictures
From Gotheborg
Type of decoration involving the application of gold. The oldest technique for gilding is called "best gilding", "solid gilding" or "fire gilding". Pure gold is mixed with mercury to a liquid, applied to the piece to be gilded and than fired at about 730 centigrade to leave pure gold. The gold is dull in appearance when it comes from the kiln and needs to be burnished to produce a bright finish.
In her book 'Gilded Dragons' Carol Michaelson refers to this method as "Mercury amalgam gilding" and tells it is done by mixing gold with mercury and applying the resultant amalgam to a metal object. When heated the free mercury boils off and the gold remains on the surface as a matt plating layer. Mercury gilding was not developed until the Warring States period.
Another method introduced in the west in the 1850's is "liquid gold" where powdered gold is applied as a liquid suspension and is painted onto the pieces. When it comes from the kiln, the gold is already bright and needs no burnishing. The drawback of this method is that bright gold tends to rub off very easily.
According to Pere d'Entrecolle, a Jesuit missionary reporting from the city of Jingdezhen in 1712 and 1722, gilding on Chinese porcelain was introduced "early in the Qing dynasty" and was done by grinding leaf gold to a powder and mixing this with an ordinary colorless lead enamel.
It is also obvious from extant Chinese porcelain pieces, that during early 20th century it is introduced a new method of gilding, which is different from earlier methods, since it gives a high gloss shiny and metalic impression, different from the older lead glaze gilding. This method or material is likely to be the same as is still the prevalent in modern porcelain industries.
a couple of points based upon what i skimmed. 1. if the top tier auction houses pass on it, it does not mean that it is not authentic. they have high bars - sometimes a minimum of 10,000usd just to spark their interests. 2. the glossy gilding appeared c. 1875 on the Continent. i suspect that it reached China not too too long afterwards.
i think that the platter is great and i tend to go with the earlier dating, but I was caught off guard by someone else who recently posted some too good to be true export wares which turned out to be Samson.
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Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars. We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. ... Asian Art Bonhams. Work. 22 Queen St.