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Dear all,
I'm a new member, so first hello to everybody!
And i have a strange question. i have this small dragon, bought 20 years ago in a small auction house in the Netherlands. It was one of a bigger collection, all archaic jade items. (i thought)
But maybe i'm totally wrong with my suggestion, because i have no knowledge of jade, only carefully looking all the sides on the internet. So i first asked my question on the Asian art forum, but nobody replies. I want to know is this an old jade dragon from the Zhou or Shang dynasty or even earlier or just a replica.
The item pasted the scratch test, it is heavy and the stone feels cold. The dragon is 8cm/7cm. It looks like an earlier example of the dragons you see on the internet from the ming dynasty.
Thanks a lot for your help!
Not archaic - Not mutton fat jade. Recent replica.
Corey is correct in my opinion.
Mutton fat jade is very expensive and the term gets thrown about.
If you lay the item on a sheet of white paper you will see the difference between mutton and other.
Mark
Welcome to the forum Monique - the other posters are right, it's a later piece in the style of an archaic jade mythical creature. My best advice is that jade was a most prized stone, that took months, even years to carve, and while some archaic jades are crude in their form, there is still a great attention to capturing the subject. For example, despite not having the appropriate tools to define the feet of the creature, there would still be evidence of a sincere effort, however crude it might be. Hope this makes some sense
Hello Monique:
Welcome to the forum! As Mark indicates, and he is our expert in this area, I doubt that your dragon is composed of mutton fat jade. I'm attaching a photograph of mutton fat jade inserted into the lid of copper box with blue enamel that I have in my collection. The jade has a "dirty" or perhaps slightly "creamy" appearance. Mark can correct me if I'm wrong, but this looks like mutton fat jade. I'm also attaching another enamelled box with white jade inserted in the lid also from my collection. I think the obvious difference is what Mark was alluding to when he mentioned laying the dragon on a sheet of white paper. I really don't enough about jade to comment on the age of your piece, but I do know that jade items are a lot more difficult to date than are porcelains.
Regards,
Errol
Nicely put Errol and I thank you for your comments therein. I do not consider myself an expert, just a collector.
Your first two pictures are from what I can see white mutton jade. The other two are not. They are a yellow jade colour.
As to age as Errol has already stated it is very difficult to determine said.To determine age one must look at the style, carving techniques of the subject piece in order to determine if it is old (pre 1900) or a later example. The use of modern drill did not happen prior to 1900 and was not fully operational till about 1920.
There are numerous websites that are uselful in dating and telling the differences between modern carvings and old. Just to make the waters more blurred are the high quality jade items being carved in the handicraft research institute in Beijing since @ 1950.
Sam Bernstein is one of the foremost experts in the field of jade and has some very interesting articles on jade. His website is very educational and also has a number of books that are very useful for dealers and collectors alike.
Mark
The two examples posted by Errol are both very collectable and nice examples. Sorry my time expired on the last thread.
One day when I but a nice camera I will post pictures of my collection that range from a period Qianlong incised gilt mountain, a large 19th century celadon offwhite dragon handled with 2 foo dogs lidded censer, massive dragon amidst waves plaques thru to a 42 carat carved Buddha certified by HK lab intense imperial emerald green jadeite.
I have had a interest in jade and other since I first opened my shop (now closed) way back in 1981.
Mark
Hello Mark:
Thanks for your helpful comments! I personally would love to see your items with descriptions of them. It would be very educational for me and I think everyone else on the forum. A description of the different types of jade and definitions of jade terminology would be most helpful. Also, I thought the Bernstein website was terrific and really elegant. I'm repeating the link here in case anyone else wants to refer to it.
The items and descriptions on the website are superb. However, it looks like one of those sources where one would be terrified to inquire regarding prices!
I'd be most grateful for your thoughts on a piece of white jade (see photographs) that I think was described as "ANTIQUE CHINESE WHITE JADE PENDANT PLAQUE SCREEN STAND 18TH - 19TH C. QING" when I won it at an eBay auction a while ago. It comes, as you can see, on a wooden stand and the jade piece measures about 3-1/2 inches high by about 2-3/4 inches at its widest. My questions are
a. Do you think this is machine carved or hand carved?
b. Do you have any thoughts on approximate age? Do you think this could a Qing item?
c. What purposes were these kinds of items used for in China during Imperial times?
I have another similar one on on a larger stand in celadon jade, but the carving is much less intricate.
Regards,
Errol
Hi Errol,
Firstly your jade bird carving is superb. The colour is delightful mutton fat.
As you know to date Jade is difficult even when you have it in your hands let alone from pictures. I would have no hesitation in stating from what I can observe that it would be qing period. I see no evidence of modern drilling and the quality of the two dimensional craving suggests to me that this is a master carving. Absolutely a stunning example set on a rosewood stand.
I don't know how much you paid for said. Items like this don't come onto eBay that often. You would normally see such quality with Christie's and other. Every-so often you can be lucky to pick up on eBay. It has been about 4 or 5 years since I bought something of the callibar of your item on eBay
You appear to be a connoisseur in taste with some fantastic examples that you have posted recently.
Mark
Hi Mark:
Thanks very much for your kind remarks! It's really nice to know that you like it and consider it a genuine hand carved item from the Qing period. I suppose I was just lucky inasmuch as I liked it and bid on it without having any certainty about its age. As I recall it cost just over $1,000 and I regarded that as a gross overindulgence. However, I absolutely love this piece and get great joy from just seeing it every day. Now that I have your opinion of it, I think I shall like it even more!
Many thanks!
Errol
Wow not an over pay by any means. A good investment that will appreciate over the years.
If you live in or near San Fransisco I would highly recommend that you visit the Bernstein premises. His prices are not that over the top. From what I have read he is a type of guru when it comes to jade. I would love to spend some time there.
Mark
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