The Chinese and Asian Art Forum. For Fans, Collectors and Dealers.
Basic Rules For the BidAmount Asian Art Forum: Talk about whatever you want. You can even discuss and offer things that are for sale if they are authentic. Maximum image file size per post is 2 MB. Images of 700pxl x 700pxl are optimal if saved at a medium resolution. Be respectful of others and enjoy yourself. Click the YouTube link for a brief tutorial on using the forum. You can also EMBED Videos by cutting and pasting from You-Tube, Vimeo etc.
NOTE: To post an item or add a new post, click open the category title from the FORUM LIST, and CLICK the Blue ADD TOPIC button.
Hey folks so I just got this and despite still being filthy I cleaned the interior and it has really brightened up, the blue is very lovely. The day light photo is a bit too blue IMO but the indoor ones are a bit yellow, haha. Wondering What you all think as far as the date, Late Ming?
Jeremy
It sure looks like someone went out if their way to add kiln grit to the foot ring and center of the bowl to make it look like an old piece of porcelain.
However, it is so poorly decorated, I’m left wondering who would take the time, but I already know there are fakers of this type.
Please tell me you didn’t spend more than $20 on this.
I’m doing a small virtual sale… I’d be happy to put some Ming minyao pieces into the sale with no reserve….I’m sure they’ll sell very reasonably.
Best,
Tim
Thanks Tim,
Paid a friend of mine $5, not too worried about it. Honestly he threw it in on top of a whopping $40 for a mahogany Georgian barometer by Adams of London. Just was wondering.
I have already checked out the estatesales link, looking forward to seeing more.
Jeremy
Zhangzhou / Swatow wares often have a load of grit or husks on the base, so that doesn't bother me of itself, just a small concern that it looks a little unnatural ie positioned, but it may be fine. I don't know enough to judge.
The style of decoration seems fine too, they were frequently poorly decorated. My main questions would be were chattermarks found on these pieces and is the colour OK- that last query could be due to photography as mentioned.
Right or wrong, I would have happily risked $5 on it. 😊
Thanks,
It does seem like a lot of grit in a strange orientation, ant that was my biggest concern. But the chatter marks are fairly common on Kraak wares. Also there seems to be a huge range of painting quality for the dishes. I just do not know enough so I defer to the experts...
Jeremy
Here is one from Brian Page that has some kiln grit and chatter marks, and the painting I think would fall into a lesser category.
Hi Jeremy -
Concur with Xin, know type of late Ming/very early Qing kraak dish ...
Attached images for comparison:-
1, five small dishes, D. 15-20cm, decorated in similar style, exhibited at National Museum, Singapore, April 1978 ...
2, middle two dishes, again with similar decoration, recovered from the Hatcher Junk, cargo dated to 1643-46 ...
Such dishes were produced in huge numbers and the quality of the clay, painting, glaze, potting and finishing varied considerably ...
Stuart
Stuart,
Thank you for the reference pictures. Very happy with it.
Cleaned up it is very pretty.
Jeremy
Well done for getting it. I am really pleased for you. I think it is lovely and am glad you asked about it as now I know for sure that Kraak wares can also have loads of grit on them like Swatow pieces and that chattermarks are fine, too. 😊
I don’t really understand why anyone would fake this type of Kraak ware, and I respect the opinions of Xin and Stuart. However, a quick search, sure enough there are online articles on fake Kaak wares - this is one such example.
The kiln grit is just too evenly placed, and the weird pile in the center defies logic.
Imagine holding a fistful of grit/sand, then letting it pour out slowly out of the bottom of your fist. It makes a pile, just like the one at the bottom center of this plate.
The plate was fired right side up on its foot, right? Why would the grit form in a pile?
Certainly some grit naturally bonds to the slip along the foot ring, and sure, a few grains (and even patches of sand) stick to the bottom. But a perfectly centered pile in the middle?
Anyway… I’m curious if the plate sits flatly on a table, or if the pile of grit is so high on the underside that it sits off kilter.
Should look like this…
Dear Greeno,
it is not a fake, it is ok as said by Xin, and on top of that it is a rare one.
Kraak ware was made for export, it has been a massive production, and the need of satisfying the great demand had the consequence of lowering the quality.
Luckily, not all them. Kraak ware can be found in a wide range of qualities, ranging from the really fine ones to the low-grade ones.
Why is this dish rare? I was joking, it is rare to find them with a so low quality😊.
But keep in mind that the fine ones are really attractive. One must handle them to believe.
Now, about your doubts.
The first one, about why would it be faked, that it has already been told to you. EVERYTHING is faked, including very cheap items.
Then, about the grit at the middle. As said, these were mass produced, not particular care was taken. Then you can well understand that the bed of kiln grits was not necessarily have been perfectly flat.
But even if it was well flat, which is the next part of the dish that could reach the bed of grits, after the foot? Exactly the center of the base, because during firing the bottom start to collapse a bit, becoming concave.
Then it is perfectly justified, much more than what we see on the back of the dish linked by Jeremy, see here below. You can see that the grits touched the dish exactly on the less probable areas, both sides near the foot which is the highest part.
That means that the bed was not flat.
Hence, nothing strange here, and most of all, nothing enough for saying that it is a fake.
Regards,
Giovanni
I learn so much when Greeno and Giovanni disagree. By all means, you two, please keep arguing about things for many years to come. Cheers! John
Jeremy did you say you paid $5 bucks?
When I first saw this post I immediately thought Ming swattow, although the design is in. Kraak style. I thought this do to the poor quality of the bowl. I found it hard to believe that the Dutch would put so much effort transporting inferior wares. But what Giovanni explains makes sense knowing the demand for porcelain at that time was so great that any thing could be sold as long as it was from China and made of porcelain. I think we are used to seeing much better quality in Kraak wares that we forget they were not all perfect.
Jeramy, only $5 off of a friend, does he have any more and does he need a new friend?
Latest Post: Bonhams AAL pieces seen/handled Our newest member: Lori Cz Recent Posts Unread Posts
Thanks for visiting "The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art"
If you sell on eBay, or have a shop feel free to post images and descriptions and links.
Check back often for discussion about the latest news in the Chinese art and antique world. Also find out about the latest Asian art auctions at Sotheby's, Christie's, Bonhams and Tajans.
Auction results for: fine porcelain, ceramics, bronze, jade, textiles and scholar's objects. As well as Japanese, Thai, Vietnamese and other Asian cultures.
Thank you,
Peter Combs
Topics and categories on The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art
Kangxi vases, Kangxi dishes and chargers, Kangxi ritual pieces, Kangxi scholar's objects, Qianlong famille rose, Qianlong enamels, Qianlong period paintings, Qianlong Emporer's court, Fine porcelain of the Yongzheng period. Chinese imperial art, Ming porcelain including Jiajing, Wanli, Xuande, Chenghua as well as Ming jades and bronzes.
Join the BidAmount Chinese and Asian art discussion board and forum today
The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art
A free Asian art discussion board and Asian art message board for dealers and collectors of art and antiques from China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam and the rest of Asia. Linked to all of the BidAmount Asian art reference areas, with videos from plcombs Asian Art and Bidamount on YouTube. Sign up also for the weekly BidAmount newsletter and catalogs of active eBay listing of Chinese porcelain, bronze, jades, robes, and paintings.
The art of calligraphy - and for the ancient Chinese it certainly was an art - aimed to demonstrate superior control and skill using brush and ink. Calligraphy established itself as one of the major Chinese art forms during the Han dynasty (206 BCE - 220 CE), and for two millennia after, all educated men were expected to be proficient at it.
The Museum’s collections of Asian art span nearly five millennia and encompass the cultures of China, the Himalayas, India, Japan, Korea, and Southeast Asia. In 2007, the Museum launched an initiative to create dedicated galleries for the collection, beginning with a gallery for the arts of Korea ...
Chinese art is full of symbolism, in that artists typically seek to depict some aspect of a totality of which they are intuitively aware.
China Online Museum is the finest online museum of Chinese art. It features Chinese calligraphy, painting, ceramics, bronzes, carving, and other artworks.
Chinese Ceramics & Works of Art. Overview Upcoming auctions Contacts Auction results ... Christie’s sales of Chinese ceramics and works of art showcase centuries of Chinese history. Held throughout the year in London, New York, Paris and Hong Kong, they attract a wide audience of collectors and connoisseurs vying for pieces as diverse as ...
Explore Asian Art Week. Contact the Specialist Department. Chinese Paintings ... Senior Specialist, Head of Sale. [email protected]. Tel:+1 212 641 5760. Bid in-person or online for the upcoming auction:Fine Chinese Paintings on 10 September 2019 at New York. Bid in-person or online for the upcoming auction:Fine Chinese Paintings on 10 ...
Discover an abundance of must-see art from all corners of a vast continent at Christie’s NY Asian Art Week. From contemporary classical and Chinese paintings to works with exemplary provenance from the Art Institute of Chicago, our Rockefeller Paza galleries will be full of ancient treasures and contemporary masterworks in a salute to the vibrant arts of Asia.
Sold to benefit The Art Institute of Chicago’s Asian Art Acquisition Fund, the sale features 84 lots with a focus on Ming and Qing porcelains, and offers a rare insight into the taste for collecting Chinese ceramics and works of art in the Midwest from the end of the 19th century through the 1980s. Highlights include two Wanli wucai garlic-head vases, a Qianlong mark and period, blue and ...
Specialist, Chinese Paintings, Christie's London Dr Malcolm McNeill is a Specialist in Chinese Paintings at Christie’s, based in London. He previously worked as an assistant curator of the Chinese collections and the Victoria and Albert Museum in London, as a researcher at the British Museum, and as a translator and tour guide at the National Palace Museum in Taipei.
The Christie's Education 2020 Conference: The Chinese Art Market 18 Jun 2019 Christie’s Education is delighted to announce our first international academic conference in Asia which will take place in Hong Kong from 26-27 November 2020 at the Hong Kong Convention and Exhibition Centre and will run in parallel with Christie’s Hong Kong Autumn Auctions.
The summer Chinese Art sale in Hong Kong will feature works of art from several private collections, including Qing porcelains and textile from the collection of the legendary Chinese art dealer A. W. Bahr (1877–1959), fine gilt bronze Buddhist sculptures from an old Hong Kong collection, an East Asian collection of Qing dynasty wine cups and jades, and a Japanese collection of Song ceramics ...
Sotheby's Chinese Works of Art Department holds two auctions each year in London, New York, Hong Kong and Paris.
Chinese Art - View Auction details, bid, buy and collect the various artworks at Sothebys Art Auction House.
With more than 340 Chinese works of art dating from the Neolithic to the Republic periods, highlights of this sale include a selection of Qing Imperial monochromes from the collection of Arnold and Blema Steinberg, early ceramics from the Art Institute of Chicago and Chinese porcelain and works of art from the collection of Henry Arnhold.
Results: Sotheby's Asia Week achieved $52.4 million in six strong auctions, exceeding pre-sale estimates. With 76.5% of lots sold and 60.3% of lots surpassing high estimates, the Asian art sales at Sotheby's indicate continued collector interest in the finest works of art from China, India and and the Himalayas.
Today's sale of Important Chinese Art will proceed as planned with sessions at 10 AM and 2 PM EDT. Sotheby's will be monitoring the weather conditions throughout the day and will be available to coordinate alternative bidding options should conditions make it difficult for clients to attend the auction in person.
Bonhams Chinese Art department is renowned for offering the finest works of art representing the richness and breadth of China's artistic heritage, particularly Imperial porcelain, white and spinach green jades, cloisonné and Buddhist art. Specialised international auctions are held globally, including London, Hong Kong and San Francisco.
Bonhams : Chinese Works of Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. Please refer to our privacy and cookie policies for more information.
Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars. We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. ... Chinese Art (US) General enquiries
Bonhams : Fine Chinese Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. Please refer to our privacy and cookie policies for more information.
Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars Bonhams : Asian Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site.
Bonhams are international auctioneers of fine Chinese and Japanese art. We specialise in rare Imperial and Export Chinese ceramics and works of art, as well as Japanese ceramics, fine and decorative works of art from the Neolithic Period to the 20th century. View on map
Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars. We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. ... Asian Art Bonhams. Work. 22 Queen St.