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 Ming1449
(@ming1449)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2702
08/01/2021 8:03 am  

@watership 

Hi Todd - 

Really not my area but what a wonderful and interesting piece,  beautiful cast and, for $50, an absolute steal! ...

The type of dragon depicted on either side of the mark may be a Japanese interpretation of the Chinese kui or foliated dragon, also named 'xiangcao' dragon, which is infact the Indian 'makara', a legendary sea creature in Hindu mythology ...

My congratulations on acquiring ...

Stuart 


   
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gfhandel
 gfhandel
(@gfhandel)
Famed Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 1415
08/01/2021 3:29 pm  

@imperialfinegems

The mark reads “Dai Nippon made during the reign of Emperor Bunsei 1818-1829” Can’t address if genuine or not but hope this is helpful.

George

 


   
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Sharon P
 Sharon P
(@sharonp)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 4504
08/01/2021 3:37 pm  

@imperialfinegems Good to know, just tried a magnet on my Lombock bronze (previously posted), which was not magnetic, thanks for the tip. Sharon (the other one). No need to come to my office.


   
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Watership
 Watership
(@watership)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 2626
Watership - Skype
Topic starter 08/01/2021 5:29 pm  

Hi Stuart,

Thanks very much. I did some Googling for dragon with no legs and was unsuccessful. Great information. I don’t own anything else quite like it, so am very happy to have found it. The closest item I have is an old hand warmer with mythical beasts. 

Hi George,

Very helpful indeed, as your interpretations and translations always are. May I ask... the dates to the reign are actually included in the characters? If this is the case, logic would dictate it could not have been made during the reign. And an extremely odd mark that is, because of the contradiction, in that the mark seems obviously contemporary with the rest of the piece. Interesting! 😋 

I suppose it could have been made at the very tail end of the reign, thus providing the maker the ending year to the reign. Seems unlikely. 

Not sure if my logic is sound here, or if I am missing some insight. 

take it with a grain of salt


   
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gfhandel
 gfhandel
(@gfhandel)
Famed Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 1415
08/01/2021 5:57 pm  

@watership

The dates are a nengo in Japanese or nianhao in Chinese and the connotation of this mark is “made during” that nengo period of time which can be found on Wikipedia.

George


   
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Watership
 Watership
(@watership)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 2626
Watership - Skype
Topic starter 08/01/2021 9:57 pm  

Ahh, thank you George. Then maybe it is actually of that time period. I will be optimistic and assume that it probably is. Have a great weekend! 

Todd

take it with a grain of salt


   
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Watership
 Watership
(@watership)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 2626
Watership - Skype
Topic starter 10/01/2021 12:15 pm  

Found this good comparable on Ebay just now. Same mark and altogether very similar. Likely the same maker I would think. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-Antique-Murata-Seimin-Dragon-Phoenix-Bronze-Flower-Basin-Edo-Era-/283552601950?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292

 

take it with a grain of salt


   
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 Julia
(@julia)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7229
10/01/2021 2:53 pm  

That is very similar. What a great buy! 🤗 


   
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 Brettm
(@brettm)
Noble Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 1197
10/01/2021 8:27 pm  

You have made a great start to 2021 Todd. 

Michael


   
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Adams Asian Art
 Adams Asian Art
(@imperialfinegems)
Mark Adams
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7013
10/01/2021 8:57 pm  

Hi Todd, 

As posted before I believe your purchase was a fantastic buy. 

I have done a little bit of research on this master. 

His works/style were continued after his death in 1837 by his number one pupil and bears the famous mark. It's worth noting that the master specialized in animals such as turtles etc. 

As I am not familiar with his earlier works and hence cannot comment on whether its Edo or later Meiji. 

I have posted a couple of references from the British museum and another from a auction room. 

One I believe is a probable example which I cannot confirm at this stage. Note the difference in the style of calligraphy. 

Your mark. 

 

 

What are you going to use it for Todd if I may ask?

Mark 

This post was modified 4 years ago 2 times by Adams Asian Art

   
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gfhandel
 gfhandel
(@gfhandel)
Famed Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 1415
10/01/2021 10:26 pm  

As noted, The master’s Edo period mark continued to be used by his students onward through the late Meiji Period. As this would be difficult to pin down a specific date, I would think a date of late Meiji or even late 19th would be a fitting attribution.

George


   
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Watership
 Watership
(@watership)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 2626
Watership - Skype
Topic starter 11/01/2021 4:55 am  

Julia and Michael, Thanks so much 😀 

Hi Mark, I took some time to look at your links, very nice. Seems like the marks have some variety. I guess we can’t verify for sure, but I guess its likely a Meiji example, as was your 1st instinct. George seems to think so too. Maybe at some time in the future I will seek confirmation. I suppose I could ask Peter.  I appreciate the time you took to do some research. Thank you. No plan to actually use it in any real way. I think I would be hesitant to put a bonsai in it with watering involved...now that it seems to have some value. Although maybe water is ok for bronze? I don’t even know. 

Thank you George. Maybe Murata Seimin II ...or other 😋 

Todd

take it with a grain of salt


   
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