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Hi all,
I've decided to make the leap from lurker to member as I continue to enjoy learning from all of the wonderful discussions on this forum. I recently purchased this plate and was wondering if anyone could shed some light on its age. It was sold as dating from the Ming dynasty, but I think that's extremely unlikely. Thanks so much for any insight!
it's not ming. if someone tells me that a plate such as yours is ming, and wasn't charging ming prices, i would be highly suspicious. however, the plate is attractive and rather nice and i could see it being at least 19th C. i would also be willing to go a bit earlier.
since my identification skills are limited, please await more qualified assessments.
I've done a little bit of research and found some other plates online that also depict this scene and border design:
Two Chinese blue and white porcelain plates
A KANGXI STYLE BLUE AND WHITE PORCELAIN
Chinese Qing Blue & White Porcelain Dish Plate Immortals Boy Bats
@lotusblack I never knew what this type of foot was called--now I know! 🙂
Hi Katalin,
Having difficulty in enlarging your plate.
It's a beautiful design and highly probable to be from Tongzhi period through to a Guangxu so. So 1852-1908.
The issue with said foot/base was problematic during the Tongzhi period. Was seen on many products etc. It was a turbulent time in china with said opium wars.
The issue with kiln grit and roughness of footrim was fixed during the guangxu period.
It's a really beautiful purchase. Congratulations.
Mark
@imperialfinegems Fascinating! Do you think this sort of design would have been made for export or would it have appealed more to the Chinese market?
I think both Kaitlin.
This design was very popular during the late guangxu period through to the Republican period.
Really great purchase.
Mark
@tonyatl I agree. I don't think the seller knew anything about the plate, but honestly I didn't either (still learning). I just really liked the design!
i always buy experimental pieces to learn. sometimes i win; sometimes i lose but i think i win more often than not. and you can say with certainty that the seller did not know anything because s/he would not have labeled it ming.
Interesting comments by Tim @Greeno107.
The border looks typically Qing rather than Ming.
Or am I missing something here?
Mark
Here is one I posted on the forum a year of so ago, and then asked Peter about. It is clearly the kissing cousin to yours. Peter said it was late Qing, based on the overall design (especially the edge design with the moths/bats and the Greek key border), and the foot rim. There are some differences (the figures are less stiff in yours), but still, I think they are likely of the same vintage.
Charles
@kirby13 Well, let's compare...
First, notice the more caligraphic manner of rendering of Kaitlin's plate. Next, look at the faces...Kaitlin's people have smiling deeply animated faces.... Charles' Qing plate, not so much. Even the manner of the clothing seems to reflect an older style in Kaitlin's plate than Charles' plate.
Now, let's look at the piling. Kaitlin's plate shows natural piling from the brush being richer in cobalt when put to the porcelain. Charles' plate shows light and dark areas, but this is a deliberate attempt by the artist to create variations in tones (a very Qing thing to do).
@imperialfinegems Mark, as you know, I usually defer to Stuart for design motifs, so if the border is only found in the Qing, then I guess you'd be correct in your dating. But, the rendering is so very different, I suspect that the design has its origins from Kraak wares from the 17th c. (Wanli period).
The cobalt color and porcelain with the heavy grit seems to support that.
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