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Not sure, but it seems really like the one Christie’s sold in 2010. I googled Christie’s Guangxu Imperial Yellow Saucer. And a few more advertised as Guangxu that seemed similar, but I’m definitely not an expert.
@centralpapottery But I’ve only handle a few hundred mark and period items at the most, so I’m a real novice.
That is a very interesting comment. It suggests to me that you are someone who has 'handled' more than 300 authentic pieces - that is hardly novice level.
I can say I have handled quite a bit less M&P pieces than you, and I certainly would not consider running my fingernail over a mark to determine authenticity. I don't recommend that technique... there is no science behind it.
I notice that you photographed the plate on a red towel. How about you post some photos against a white or black background (or both), and pose the plate similar to how the Christie's example is shown, and post the link to the Christie's plate?
Then we can do a side by side comparison.
@greeno107 oh my, I was thinking 200 when I said a few. Should have said a couple hundred. And when I say mark and period I’m speaking of mostly those from 1850s till now. I don’t think I’ve handled one piece older that 1850. Unfortunately I don’t think I have the skill to do the side by side with Christie’s example, but I’ll find it again and try to take similar shots. However, I’m not sure Christie’s shows the rim, only the piece and close-up of the mark.
@centralpapottery So, you've handled roughly 200 post 1850's mark and period pieces, and you're uncertain about the authenticity of your plate with Guangxu mark?
There are really only two reigns to consider after 1850, Tongzhi and Guangxu, so if we split the difference, you've handled about 100 Guangxu mark and period pieces. Did you handle any monochromes? I can not imagine that there would be much variation in their weight, color, porcelain, and mark with other Guangxu M&P pieces.
I can say I have only handled about 3 or 4 Guangxu mark and period pieces, but I've seen quite a few online, museum collections, etc. While it is very hard to make an assessment of the color/form of your bowl given how you've taken the photos, the foot rim, bottom, and mark are clear enough.
Take a look at the comparison between your plate's mark and one sold by Sotheby's...
Your's is sloppy, each character appears too tightly drawn, the line work is blurry, and some characters are not oriented correctly...they seem to tilt as if they were drawn in a slight running script.
Looking closely at the bottom of your plate, I see concentric rings. The foot rim appears bright white. How do these traits compare to the hundred other Guangxu M&P pieces you handled?
@greeno107 I should do an extreme close-up of my mark like Sotheby's. But, I agree with your assessment. My mark seems not nearly as crisp. Definitely thicker, seemingly enamel.. Also, I believe you're trying to make a point here? Like I haven't handled many mark and period pieces? True. In my ignorance, I'm calling those red stamped pieces from the late 19th to early 20th century mark and period. I'm guessing you're not liking that because they're mimicking others. But for me, in my thinking, they are mark and period because everyone knows what period they are from and they're marked. Haha, just in my thinking. I know, mark and period means it's a correct 18th century mark on an 18th century piece. I think even on the Christie's example they might have said "probably." Anyway, point taken.
A couple Christie’s photos I saw. One was of two bowls that had similar impurities as mine and seemingly a white porcelain. May 13 2010 pair of yellow glazed bowls Guangxu underglaze blue six character marks and of the period. The second was July 13 2006 a pair of yellow glazed saucer dishes, Guangxu six character marks and of the period. It seems the same foot base as mine ( but mine is only 4 1/4” and theirs 6 3/8”), but the glaze almost totally covers the foot. However, the porcelain does look fairly white. I’m only offering this as observation, not saying mine is mark and period.
@centralpapottery Let me first say that there is absolutely no shame in not knowing, or simply making a mistake. Among the few experts I have met, their knowledge is far from infallible. In this forum, I recall several times that my own lack of knowledge had led me making claims that were nothing short of being wrong. It's no big deal as long as you own up to it.
What's important is that we avoid making statements that seem disingenuous because they can lead to misunderstandings about your intentions, and I think you get that. Novice or expert, everyone is welcome to post on this Forum. There is no threshold of how many pieces one has handled to qualify for one or the other, and I have personally found that 'fresh eyes' often uncover remarkable insight into this difficult hobby of ours.
That said, there is a significant difference between genuine M&P pieces and those with red stamps (or other marks) created in the late 19th c. to early 20th c.
Please post a close up shot of the foot so we can compare the mark more accurately. Monochromes are not my particular interest, and while I'm fairly certain your piece is of a later period, there are other members here who have more experience with monochromes.... perhaps they will chime in once we can make a better comparison.
Sorry, again, I don’t have the skill to know how to use Christie’s pictures. I think the Christie’s foot that was closest to mine was on a “Pair of Chinese Green and Aubergine-Enamelled Yellow-Ground ‘Dragon’ Dishes” sold 5 Aug 2020. Seems like same foot and whiteness of porcelain. However, the mark is much more crisp. That’s why in my original question I asked if it’s possible the mark could be an enameled mark.
Back of one of the two of Christie’s Guangxu dragon dishes. Same foot as mine, same color yellow, looks like white porcelain in their photo, theirs has a better/more crisp mark it seems.
@centralpapottery Can you post a clear close up photo of the bottom of your plate? And, what is the sale date and lot number of the Christie's example? There's nothing to learn from bad photos.
Christie’s example I mentioned is from 21 July 2016. Pair of yellow-ground green and aubrrgine enameled dragon dishes. Seems like similar foot and porcelain.
I believe the same ones are 5 Aug 2020 lot 50. It was an onlineonly.Christie’s.com auction. The fourth character on one of their bowls is a little busy and the top part of the sixth character is as well. But seemingly the same color and color of porcelain. I could be wrong, of course.
@centralpapottery Here's the mark from Christie's...
Do you think you can post a similar photo of your plate/bowl?
@greeno107 Maybe tomorrow but my camera won’t do as well probably. Is this from one of the 5 Aug 2020 lot 50 bowls? The pictures of the two bowls I saw were different I thought. Because one had a blotchy looking 4th character and the other a thicker 6th character. Neither the 4th or 6th on this bowl look thicker.
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