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Genuine Chenghua children Cup?

 
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Sadoqyo
 Sadoqyo
(@sadoq95)
Estimable Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 87
Topic starter 15/10/2021 4:47 pm  

Hello, guys again, after that controversy I created in the last post about that Qianlong bowl, With the blessings of Allah, I Found another piece, and guess what now? it's a Chenghua children's cup,  the owner said it was discovered by an antique dealer in an old house some time ago, and his friend bought it and leave it with him with other stuff.

I know this type of cup is not copied over if ever as the Chicken cup, I did my research and barely find one or two but they are in the shape of the chicken cup(flat bottom).

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sdfsd
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sfsd
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gdfg

can you share your thoughts and ideas about this bowl?

I did send it to Mr.Peter Combs but he still didn't reply, does any one of you have his phone number? I tried the one on the contact page and no one pick up the phone.

@jeremy @bartholin @julia @shinigami @lep @johnshoe @ronm @sharonp @short-dong @greeno107 @jbeer2121 @brettm @john-steward
@clayandbrush @tam18 @xin_fawis @plcombs@watership @nicdan @ming1449 @gfhandel


   
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Topic Tags
Chinese porcelain Chinese cups ducai
 Jeremy Beer
(@jbeer2121)
Famed Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1678
15/10/2021 5:07 pm  

Ibrahim,

I know Peter injured his hand recently and the response times have increased, he will likely get back to you, just it may take 4-5 days.

I am no expert, but the color of the paste looks off and the colors seem a bit off to me, the cobalt is not what I think of tone wise, that may be the lack of contrast and dim lighting of the photos though. 

Im sure someone with way more knowledge will come along and help you out better.

Cheers,

Jeremy


   
Julia and Sharon P reacted
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Luís Pereira
 Luís Pereira
(@lep)
Prominent Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 422
15/10/2021 5:10 pm  

check your spam inbox also, last time, because he started sending video it went to spam and I thought he forgot!

 


   
Sharon P reacted
ReplyQuote
Greeno107
 Greeno107
(@greeno107)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2875
15/10/2021 5:21 pm  

Well, a quick search for a Chenghua doucai 'children at play' cup pulled up one example at the Cleveland Museum.  Compare...

cleveland museum cup side
cleveland museum cup bottom

The box you have it in is new, but ignoring the box.... the colors are definately lack the vibrance of Imperial porcelain, lacks subtle details in the design, and the shades of blue are not a match to Cleveland's cup.


   
Shinigami, Julia, John Guerrero and 2 people reacted
ReplyQuote
Greeno107
 Greeno107
(@greeno107)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2875
15/10/2021 5:23 pm  
side by side cups

Yours on the left....Cleveland's on the right.


   
Jeremy Beer reacted
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Sadoqyo
 Sadoqyo
(@sadoq95)
Estimable Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 87
Topic starter 15/10/2021 5:45 pm  

Yeah, I think it is a fake, after all, I had doubts about it! 

well I need to be careful a bit more

thank you


   
Julia and Sharon P reacted
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 Ming1449
(@ming1449)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2710
15/10/2021 6:10 pm  

@sadog95

Hi Ibrahim - 

Tim is quite correct, the overall painting and detailing within, enamel tones, footrim/base finish and execution of the mark all indicates this is a modern copy ...

Copies of such doucai ‘boys playing’ cups were made from the Jiajing period, so mid 16thC, onwards ... 

I will forward some images tomorrow for comparison ...

Stuart 


   
Shinigami, Julia, John Guerrero and 1 people reacted
ReplyQuote
Luís Pereira
 Luís Pereira
(@lep)
Prominent Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 422
15/10/2021 7:57 pm  

@sadoq95 keep digging and keep posting!!!

 


   
Sharon P reacted
ReplyQuote
 Ming1449
(@ming1449)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2710
16/10/2021 6:31 am  

@sadog95

Hi Ibrahim - 

Attached images for comparison:- 

Images 1/2/3:- Chenghua mark/period doucai cup, Gugong, Palace Museum, Beijing ...

Images 4/5/6:- Jiajing mark/period doucai copy of this shape and design, Gugong, PM, Beijing ...

Image 7:- Chenghua m/p doucai cup, National Palace Museum, Taipei ...

Images 8:- Jiajing m/p doucai copy of this of this shape/design, NPM, Taipei ...

Stuart 

11AB2A23 D631 4584 93E8 F57B7BD522BC
6F632F1B 2A05 44FE 973C AD70745DBE02
50832C70 37F7 4DA0 89CE FC8BDDC0BA02
E23F8D94 8220 483C 8AD9 81FFD5B528A1
E14D17BA 0105 4B6C 8099 E6D4951B7010
54B86252 5E10 4504 B329 60D79B0BDF6D
C588F6CF 6C3E 4DFD AB48 4188215AB051
05101981 F520 4FAA B553 5B0B93843609
87D106A8 AFFC 4E35 8982 1F113E1E9A5C

   
Sharon P, Adams Asian Art and Julia reacted
ReplyQuote
 Ming1449
(@ming1449)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2710
16/10/2021 6:38 am  

@sodog95

Hi Ibrahim and all - 

With apologises, caption should read as follows:- 

‘Images 7/8:- Chenghua m/p doucai cup, National Palace Museum, Taipei’ ...

‘Image 9:- Jiajing m/p doucai copy of this shape/design, NPM  Taipei ... 

The NPM, Taipei have two Jiajing copies of the Chenghua originals ... 

Stuart 

 


   
Brian Crowe, Sharon P and Adams Asian Art reacted
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