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Cloisonne lamp - French japonism or real Japanese vase?
I have this lovely 19th C cloisonne vase to lamp conversion.
At the moment of the purchase, I was 100% sure and convinced it's a French vase.
I have started browsing this subject and actually, I started finding stunning examples of Japonism pieces made in France.
Would you agree with me, that this one is also French?
I really struggle to see it as Japanese...
It's imo French in the Japanese style.
Very nice example. I like the turquoise blue effect.
Have you checked to see if the core is porcelain? Looks like Totai shippo cloisonne.
Have you checked to see if the core is porcelain? Looks like Totai shippo cloisonne.
Thank you for sharing that. Different category of items. Mine is typical cloisonne, copper body, wiring with enamels. Plus, it's French.
It is an unusual main body pattern but it does look Japanese to me. Do the French pieces you have seen have those little red circles forming the cartouches and around the bottom?
I should add I know very little about French cloisonné, the only piece I have is very typical of a certain type, not terribly attractive unlike some of the wares.
@Julia & Brian,
Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts, I really appreciate it.
Earlier today I have removed the whole ormolu to inspect the bottom if there was any mark, but there was just some odd paint splached, however, once I removed the base and looked at the bottom I said to myself: well, that looks Japanese to me 😀
The feel of the item is strictly Japanese, however, the problem I have are colours - they are just bit different than usually seen on Japanese pieces, but they fit in perfectly with the European cloisonne enamels - that is my impression of course, and I do admit I know nothing right now 🙂
I totally understand your point, Julia and Brian and I love that you have raised your views.
I cannot answer to your question, Julia if I have seen those red dots on European pieces. I have seen very similar patterns.
The problem is that the French got extremely good at replicating Oriental pieces, but they mastered combining both styles: Chinese and Japanese. All those confirmed 'Japonism' examples have one thing in common - you can't really tell if it's Japanese or Chinese and then you realize you're looking at European copy from the same period - at least that's my experience with that kind of wares.
Please, take a look at those two listings:
2nd one is Japanese item (at least accordingly to the seller): https://www.mayfairgallery.com/pair-of-ormolu-mounted-cloisonne-enamel-antique-meiji-vases
To me, both are identical, but I think the 2nd pair is true Japanese Meiji items - and the giveaway is enamels - colours are matching Japanese pallete.
French colours are looking a little bit oversaturated compared to a bit darker Japanese pallete.
But now, all I know is I know nothing 😀
Julia, you have asked a very good question, I'll keep looking for those dots. So far I keep find them only on Japanese pieces...
I know what you mean about some of the colours, I had a quick look last night. It could be as Brian suggested, that these were made specifically for the French Market. I saw one dealer describe the pair he had as Chinese cloisonné with French mounts.
I did not see any of the red circles on the pieces described as French and in a way, I would be a bit surprised if I had, as aesthetically, they are not the most attractive feature of Japanese pieces.
What I couldn’t find was any unmounted french cloisonné of this type to compare it with. I shall look again.
I have been reading about french cloisonné. Very interesting, will share a link below.
I think your vase is Japanese, Adrian, with mounts added in France. I looked at the work by Barbedienne and it seems different, whereas I also read on other ormolu mounted pieces, that the cloisonné vase or bowl had been exported to France where mounts were added in accordance with French taste at the time.
Obviously, that is not conclusive, just my opinion. 😊
Thank you so much for your time spent on this matter. I think I am now 98% convinced by you. And also I think Brian is right suggesting this vase was made for the French market.
I find this subject fascinating and worth exploring much deeper. The factories around Europe, France mainly, were well established, so there is a lot of info available.
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