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I’m not sure if the stamp is period but the ginger jar is nicely painted I want to sell this with correct dating. I know there are pros here.
I know there are some strong feelings that theses stamped marks are later, but the color, design, and porcelain look just fine fit Tongzhi.
Always difficult these types of wares when viewing online.
Greeno107 is very skilled in dating these wares etc. However, this time I must disagree, respectively of course.
The stamped mark is very indicative of guangxu period. The top band is also guangxu rather than earlier imo.
Watersilkdragon has If you wish to visit a more detailed post about these. I haven't looked etc. I am just going by memory. So I could of course be wrong here.
It's a very nice example but I think it is guangxu rather than tongzhi period. Note the iron brown spots on the base.
These are often sold as Tongzhi/Guangxu period. I think about 90% of marked tongzhi is in fact guangxu period. If the mark was handwritten I would have said earlier. From memory stamped marked appeared after about 1870 and not before.
I do hope Birgit @shinigami logs in with her view.
Mark
@lotusblack Yes, that green (I call lime green) is telling.
Agree with Mark. The stylistic crossing between Tongzhi and Guangxu was smooth. As Mark said the stamp was used from around 1870 so there are cases when one could argue that an item was made between 1870-75. But it’s a widespread agreement to call everything with a stamped mark Guangxu. And even if you’re convinced it’s M&P Tongzhi you wouldn’t be able to resell it as such because of the widely known rule that stamped Tongzhi is Guangxu.
Birgit
I have a similar jar. I have just been trying to find it without waking up my husband. Not easy so I will look again later. 🤣
My feeling is also Guangxu, but I would like to see a shot of the top border, please, just for reference if nothing else. If that is possible, of course.
I agree with what Birgit said about the dating, if I were in the market for one of these, I would be more interested in quality / originality rather than the actual date.
As I said, I know the rule, but honestly I’m not aware of the history behind the rule.
Has porcelain bearing dates during the Guangxu been found to also have Tongzhi marks? I’m thinking qianjiang porcelains often have stem branch dates in the calligraphy, but are sometimes stamped on the bottom.
I would be sincerely interested in an explanation as to why Tongzhi marks would have been used in the Guangxu. It’s a long time belief that I’m well aware of, but never understood the origins.
Thanks
Well I do see red stamp on Tongzhi mark and period pieces high selling straits have these marks wait my jar does have that straits green. Lol
Thanks, Brian. They are very "juicy" looking enamels. I was interested in that pink in particular. Still looking for mine. I wish we could get organised faster here and get stuff out of boxes!
I have read that marks of a a reign were sometimes used well into the next reign. I have a dated 1911 tea cup with a Guangxu stamp. Maybe they had not yet made a Xuantong stamp or it wasn’t really important to them.
Birgit
The stamped seal script mark is 官窯內造 guan yao nei zao, "manufactured within the official kiln". A quick google search shows this as generally thought to be a late Qing, early Republic mark. Davison has it as 20C (mark #1712). My quick search did not turn up any seal script marks, only standard kai script marks.
Regards,
John
@jjytlee Is the Davison mark like mine or Kai script? I’m jar is Imperial lol
@lotusblack Davison doesn't show a seal script version, and I did not come across any seal script Guan Yao Nei Zao marks online. (BTW Davison doesn't show any photographs of actual marks - the marks he records have all been transcribed from the original).
Here's an example of a kai script version I found online:
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