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Bought this plate from a local auction , just took a bid because it was cheap , I now it's Japanese but not sure about anything else .
Its an oval plate enamelled porcelain approx 20 cm's in width , the style has lead me to maybe early Arita 17th century ware , not to good with Japanese ceramics so a little help is needed.
Carl
The Shape is interesting.
Could it be Hichozan style of Imari, something like the 'imari arita iro hichozan shinpo sei' style you see in the late 19th century.
1860-1880. Late Edo early Meiji period.
A very nice plate, I would have probably bid on it, too.
As for age, I am not sure. Most 17th c Arita plates I have seen are blue and white. There isn't much blue on this and that bothers me a bit. Shangri-la have an early plate on their website which has lots of blue with red and gold but no green.
Could this be a Kakiemon piece? Or SD could be correct and it is later.
Here is a link to the early imari plate:
https://www.agefotostock.com/age/en/Stock-Images/Rights-Managed/MPN-102992
Just a couple of examples of 17th century Japanese Arita porcelain with only enamelled decoration , They are nothing like mine but it does show that enamel only decoration was used in 17th century Japan.
Carl
JUst been looking at their site. The colours on this fit well:
https://shangrila-antique.com/product/17-18c-japanese-porcelain-plate-after-chinese-mign-example/
Here's one with similar enamel work but this piece does have under glaze blue as well.
Carl
That last one looked more like 19th c to me. ? I can't believe it went for so much. Will have to check the stash of old Japanese plates I have. ?
Back to your lovely plate, I still am so unsure. The things to my mind that may count against it being 17th c is that both the plates I posted have chattermarks, doesn't necessarily mean yours should have, but it is something to bear in mind. Also the 4 main pieces of red decoration on the rim do make me think 19th c as perhaps does the pale salmony-pink colour on the distant mountain - admittedly only because I have a 19th c plate with that colour!
The guy who owns Shangri-la is a member here, he may be able to give a better idea?
Thanks Julia
Very helpful and generous as usual , I will take a closer look at the plates you linked. I am as confused as you i must study Japanese items a little more in the future .
Best regards
Carl
JUst been looking at their site. The colours on this fit well:
https://shangrila-antique.com/product/17-18c-japanese-porcelain-plate-after-chinese-mign-example/
Julia, The description from Christies describes that plate as Blue and enameled, with a description of painted brushstrokes. By blue does it mean an underglaze of blue, as with all these examples of 17th century they seem to have a mix of underglaze blue and enamel.
However Carl's plate in the opening Post does not appear to have an underglaze. It does not look any more special than the majority of other late 19th century Japanese plates. I would have even suggest early 20th century but that they stopped making imari arita iro hichozan shinpo sei in the late 19th century.
I have no idea SD, I couldn't even find the Christies plate.
I was trying to find some reason to justify this plate as possibly 17th c. As I said, I found the colours and patterns generally more in keeping with 19th c, although I am not sure I can see the resemblance to the style you mention but I know little about that either and had to look up some examples! ?
As I have only really taken notice of the beautiful blue and white early Arita plates, I did a bit of searching for more colourful examples. It was the shade of the red and the colour of the man's jacket that caught my eye on this plate and there is also green.
That was as far as I got.
I have no idea SD, I couldn't even find the Christies plate.
I was trying to find some reason to justify this plate as possibly 17th c. As I said, I found the colours and patterns generally more in keeping with 19th c, although I am not sure I can see the resemblance to the style you mention but I know little about that either and had to look up some examples! ?
As I have only really taken notice of the beautiful blue and white early Arita plates, I did a bit of searching for more colourful examples. It was the shade of the red and the colour of the man's jacket that caught my eye on this plate and there is also green.
That was as far as I got.
🙂
The Christies plate is very similar to the SHANGRILA-ANTIQUE
Anyway my question was that many of the 17th century have underglaze blue and enamel. Whereas Carls plate just has enamel.
Yes, it does and that is probably a good indicator of when it was made - or not made! ?
The problem is i don't think the lack of under glaze blue is really an indicator at all , I have posted two images above of 17th century Japanese ceramics that have no under glaze blue . I am not trying to say my plate is from that period it could well be and probably is from the 19th century but for study reasons i think it is important to be as definite as we can.
I see many of these enamels used during the early Edo period but what specifically defines this to a late Meiji period?
Carl
Here is another 17th century Kakiemon enamelled dish with no under glaze blue , Can we see any differences in the enamels used during the 17th century and my dish?
Carl
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