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Hi Todd,
That would be my first impression, too. I believe there is such a thing as Chinese satsuma, so it might be worth checking that out. Do you know what any of the marks say?
Best wishes,
Julia
I think the first two characters of the mark are 'kutani' - you could do a search and compare the faces to try to date this , my guess would be early to mid C20th, from the decorative style and extensive use of gilding. I would say made in Japan rather than being a Chinese copy.
Chinese characters (hanzi) and Japanese characters (kanji) are the same , more or less; Japanese writing has additional writing systems (hirigana and katakana) but you rarely (ever?) see these on porcelain marks.
tam
Hi Tam,
It is Kutani...I thought I was very familiar with the Kutani mark, but I was thrown off by the way it is written. The line on the right in the 1st character is squiggly, and the 2nd symbol that usually looks like a house to me, looks more like a face here...but it is Kutani, now I see it. Nicely done Tam. I know Julia is familiar with the Kutani mark also and she is pretty sharp, so I am in good company :D.
I will look at some faces and try to date it as you suggest.
Best, Todd
take it with a grain of salt
Narrowed it down...it is “Kutani/Satsuma Toyo Japan”. That is the label appearing on the base of another piece with a nearly an identical mark.
take it with a grain of salt
Interesting , thx . That label in English is surely C20th , and mid C20th most likely , although I see from the screen shot you provided that the seller optimistically thinks it's C19th...
tam
Yes, overly optimistic for sure. While I have your attention Tam..the base of this optimistic item is yellowish while the one I have is pure white. What are your thoughts on this? Just a different material? I don’t believe my piece is older than the optimistic piece...the artwork is close enough to assume its the same artist. Unless he had a very long career I suppose.
take it with a grain of salt
Slightly confused again...I found this information online: “Toyo Trading Company is the multi-product import company, founded over 50 years ago, that sold both Kutani and Satsuma wares. This is their standard shop sticker for both. Toyo is still operated in Santa Fe Springs, CA by the same Nakayama family as when they first began purchasing finished goods in Japan for distribution to high end home furnishings markets in the US, and put their sticker on this Kutani vase.”
So, what I wonder is...did Toyo only purchase brand new items? Or were they also into buying older pieces, like gallery stickers do today? And then...is the optimistic piece Toyo, or more accurately Kutani with a Toyo sticker on it. And does the marking in any way indicate Toyo? (This question I am guessing is no).
I don’t know...
The vase I have came from Japan within the last month, so I think this piece was not exported by Toyo.
take it with a grain of salt
Hi Water ship , I don't know any answers , but you did well to find the info about Toyo. You only posted a screen shot of the second vase so I can't compare decoration of the two vases, maybe you could post the ebay link ?
I am guessing here, but it's certainly possible that Toyo would have imported anything kutani/satsuma, so old as well as new , so their label might not date the item.
tam
Hi Tam,
Here’s the link:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ANTIQUE-19TH-C-JAPANESE-SATSUMA-KUTANI-VASE/392143481146
Todd
take it with a grain of salt
Hi
I think yours looks older than the ebay one , which as you say has a yellowish , crackled base; that one has much less gilding (maybe worn?) than yours and the faces seem more uniform - maybe his /hers is mid to late C20th , copying an earlier 1920s or 30s style, of which yours is an example. Just an idea, not sure really.
tam
I didn’t even notice the difference in the gilding or the faces until you mentioned it. I compared my piece to the ebay pics again and see exactly what you mean. My inexperience really shows here. I was too quick to assume the two pieces were closely related. The gold background also looks different to me now...the ebay piece’s gold background looks sloppier, while the one I have is incredibly even. Thanks so much for your help.
Todd
take it with a grain of salt
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