Hello Dragonfly:

There is an auction scheduled for Nov. 26 on eBay by Chamberlain antiques (juice1499 on eBay). SEE LINK He has small three vases up for auction that look very similar to the ones you asked about in depth of blue color, wave form decoration and the appearances of the necks and feet (see photographs below). Incidentally you did not give the dimensions of the three vases you were asking about and that has an impact on sale and auction prices. As you can see today five hours prior to the close of the auction there are 11 bids with the top bid being $18.50 for three vases. Admittedly, they are small and I assume the ones you asked about were much larger. However, this should give you a rough guide as to price. The description of them on the eBay page is as follows: "This listing is for nice lot of three Chinese porcelain jars all dating to the late Qing Dynasty. The jars are decorated with prunus blossoms and measure between 4.75 and 5.5 inches tall." I think this reinforces the opinions here that the three vases you asked about are Kangxi revival pieces, namely late 19th century, and not Kangxi.

Regards,

Errol

Dear all,

my two cents here.

Yes all the three prunus jars are 19^th century. Sizes are missed but the best one to me is the third one, I agree with Julia on this. Nice painting style, nice cobalt, nice shading and shape. And good that it doesn’t has spurious marks.

I do not know what is the black neck; I too have a monochrome blue jar with that same black neck and I have not been able to understand what it is.

Dear Chris, agree with you about the lines of the ice crackling. And about the style of the blossoms and the type of blue. I like to say that the Kangxi blue (although in general, but not always) is more “limpid”, less dull. It seems that your sight goes through its clearness.

The differences between real Kangxi and 19th century copies are evident in the following picture. It says everything.

The energy of the bold strokes of the real Kangxi one is so evident, as is the limpid blue.

The motif, for what I know, is representing the coming of Spring, because it has plum blossoms (one of the first trees to bloom) and the ice that is cracking because it is starting to melt.

Dear Erroll I envy you having those Mike Vermeer’s pieces. The vase is wonderful, and is 19^th century despite the square rocks which are most often seen on Yongzheng/Qianlong ware, as rightly said by Xin.

Here is an example:

Your questions about Kangxi marks are particularly true, in my opinion, for Chinese taste ware, not meant for export. There are imperial vases, not expressly meant for the Emperor but as Court gifts for high ranks, which has no marks at all.

Dear Alan, let me say how I share your sentiments about Mike Vermeer. He has been my mentor, I had phone conversations with him which I miss. He has been really generous in sharing his knowledge.

Dear Erroll the pieces of his estate sold by Christies has been not so many, about 25 if I recall well. The rest has been sold at that Auction where you bought your pieces. Some incredibly low results there.

Not possible to me to bid there being based in Italy.

Giovanni

Dear Giovanni:

Yes a picture is worth a thousand words. Your illustrations of the ice cracks really show how a true Kangxi period blue prunus vase should look. Thanks for the illustration and explanation of the rocks too! Don't you think Tam's explanation of the ice cracks and the prunus flowers  surviving the winter is fascinating?

Best regards,

Errol

Dear Errol,

Am I not right in thinking that the eBay seller Joannies House of Treasures also acted as the seller for some of Mike Vermeer's items? I have a recollection of seeing some of them listed there too.

Regards,

Alan

Apologies - my post was intended for a separate thread, not for this one.

Apologies for my apology - it was the correct thread after all!

Hi Alan 

If my memory is correct the 2nd tier of Vermeer's estate was bought by Joannies house of treasures and others who bid at said auction. The auction was not well published and she along with others who attended/bought bagged themselves a bargain or two.

Mark

Thanks Giovanni,  That was very interesting and very well explained and demonstrated. 

Dear Mark and Alan:

That is completely correct. Joanie's and several other smaller eBay sellers bought up the entire second-tier estate from Brunk Auctions in North Carolina. I did not mean to imply that I had got my items from Brunk Auctions by bidding on them myself. Joanie's got the lion's share and they dribbled them out over several auctions claiming each time that these were the last of the Vermeer items and sure enough more would then appear at a later auction! I got a couple of my items through Joanie's, including the green prunus vase, at  fairly high but not excessive prices in my opinion and a couple from smaller eBay sellers at what I thought were absolutely bargain prices so it all balanced out.

I took the precaution though of consulting the Brunk Auctions catalog  before bidding on the items on eBay. I think the catalog must be available still, but I had bookmarked it and when I tried to find it again recently the bookmark would no longer work. All the items I won at auction or purchased as Buy It Now items on EBay were shown as up for auction at Brunk Auctions so I did not fall victim to any Vermeer-Griggs labels being affixed to non-Vermeer items by anyone as has been alleged to have occurred in some cases by posters on this forum. 

The worst part for the Vermeer estate was that most of the items were bundled into lots by Brunk Auctions. Joanie's and other eBay sellers broke up the lots into individual items and made a real killing especially with some of the rarer items. Who can really blame them for doing that? There was one really wonderful figural and gilt tulip vase  that seemed too good to be on eBay, but I assume Christie's rejected it for some reason. I'm attaching a couple of examples of ilustrations from the Brunk Auctions Vermeer catalog showing the bundling of items into lots to show you how the auction was handled or maybe mishandled. The lesson in all of this is presumably that one cannot control what happens after death especially when one has no close relatives and the estate's inheritors are not well informed and in a hurry to get their money!

Best regards.

Errol

Hello all:

The three small blue prunus vases up for auction by Chamberlain Antiques (juice1499) sold for $152.60.  SEE LINK  I illustrated them in my post above in response to Dragonfly's request for information about pricing.

Errol

Dear Erroll,

I do not know if in some latitudes the plum blossoms survive the Winter.

Here in Italy not, they bloom early in Spring.

I believe that the association of the broken ice and plum blossoms meaning the coming of Spring is understandable. To support this, I have a Japanese vase where it is even better shown, because there are no branches, the blossoms are represented as having fallen on an iced surface.

Giovanni

Dear Errol,

I was very interested to hear your account of how Brunk auctioned off many of the second-tier items from Vermeer-Griggs, sometimes in job lots. Certainly, relative to their re-sale on eBay, Brunk would not have realised comparable results by bundling items together in this way. They gave a gift to the eBay dealers.

Reading between the lines, I get the impression that Christies were offered first choice of the collection. After making their selection, the remainder went to Brunk.

If I'm right, then it would appear that Christies were not entirely comfortable with a few of the items being what Mike had assessed them to be. Such discrepancies, though, never surprise me these days. I have repeated evidence of high-end experts disagreeing with each other. 

This necessarily has consequences for prospective consigners. The verdict they get on their items may depend on who they show them to. My advice to anyone thinking of consigning an item that they suspect could be a high-end one is, never rely solely on the opinion of just one auction house. If the item is given the thumbs-down in one place, take it to another for a second opinion. Conceivably, here it may get a thumbs-up. Believe me, such things can and do happen.

Regards,

Alan

It happens, it happens... and today much more frequently than yesterday.

Giovanni

Dear Giovanni,

Yes, and I think there are a number of reasons which explain why that is so, why disagreement appears more common these days that it seems to have been in the past. 

Regards,

Alan

Dear Giovanni,

May I give one contemporary illustration of the point I'm making, then I will stop posting on here for today? Forum readers will have had enough of me after this one.

This very afternoon, Tuesday 27 November, Bruun Rasmussen in Denmark will be auctioning a blue and white Yuan dynasty vase. 

This vase had previously been dismissed as a fake by London dealers. It was then treated to a TL test on the continent. The test proved scientifically that it was indeed a fourteenth century piece, and that there was no question about it whatsoever.

So there we are, so much for expert opinion. Quod erat demonstrandum!

Alan