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Hi, thank you all for your helpful answers. I see the vase in a new light now. As I have already registered with the auction house I will leave a bid but only as Peter says „always leave a bid“. I will most probably not get the vase as I won’t bid too high and rather wait for another opportunity. So please feel free to bid. There were already six people who „liked“ the item on the auction house site when I started the thread so I expect it to go much higher than my budget.
Birgit
Since I don't know your budget, let me suggest that $5,000 would be a steal even if it turns out to be a Republic piece (which as I everyone can read, I feel the piece has merit as a period piece).
For the record, I'm a notorious underbidding cheapskate when it comes to buying porcelain at auction, as I prefer to save my money to swoop in on under priced pieces at estate sales.
The 2017 Christie's comparison is roughly $45,000, but that includes 23% premium. So the hammer price was roughly $30,000 USD. The market has not changed significantly in these kind of pieces in the past three years, but this vase is quite nice.
Since it's rare for smaller auction houses to reach the kind of results that the big ones get, I think the piece might reach $15,000 to $20,000 if the Chinese market believes as I domthat this piece is the real deal.
Well, I was just told I will be on short time work for an unspecified time due to the Corona lockdown, so I won’t buy anything in the near future.
Birgit
@shinigami So sorry Birgit, hopefully in a short while life will return to a more normal life. All the best for the future year, Sharon
Thank you Sharon. It will be a good experience to have to economize for a while. My last duty-free purchase from Britain has reached me today, a 1786 Hester Bateman caddy spoon. After the Brexit I will really miss buying from the great British sellers.
Birgit
The vase is painted well, but it's not imperial. The picture below says enough information. That can't possibly look like a good head to anyone...
It is what it is!
@collectingasia Are you critiquing the rendering, or the odd shape of the head?
The rendering is spot on good. The shape of the head of the attendant is not delicate like Magu and the other maiden, but clearly this is intentional.
I don't know the history of Magu, or this vase is depicting Magu or another female immortal, but perhaps the attendant is is a known folk character, or a eunuch, or simply the artist is drawing a distinction between the look of a commoner from the beauty of the immortals.
I noticed in one of your post that you mentioned "by my clients".
Are you a dealer/appraiser?
Just interested.
Mark
Yes, I resell. Mostly to other dealers, galleries, on WeChat, and through auction houses. I'm home based...I don't even have a business card. Generally I do a few shows a year, but 2020...well...you know. I might start selling at shows again in 2021.
As a general rule, I do not appraise with respect to value (I slip on this once and a while), but I'm always available for an opinion on age / quality to the best of my abilities.
I prefer to just buy/collect, but I'm not rich and I have a big extended family I'm helping, so I have to sell to offset my buying and living expenses.
Mostly I keep/collect Japanese art, and sell the Chinese pieces I find...the market is just too hot for me to risk sitting on a good piece, to then have it drop in value because of bad politics or something.
People that know me, know that I am honest and that I have a knack for finding good things.
I haven’t been on the forum for a few days, but had discussed this piece (and the sale) with another member here over email.. so I’ll offer a summary on that.
My issue wasn’t so much the piece itself (which my limited, personal, and very subjective opinion suggested it is Qing and not Republic; just not Daoguang either - likely from the rebuilt Jingdezhen kilns of the later 19th century), yet it was the comparisons Zacke offers - and seemed to cherry pick for many items.
You’ll notice several pieces with Shende Tang zhi marks produced after Daoguang’s reign sold by the larger houses that ended up far more often in the $5,000-$10,000 range instead; which is about where I expect this one to end up at.
(As @greeno107 said though, if the market feels differently - it’ll do multiples beyond that.
This would be far from the first time a decent house offers a modest estimate/reserve which gets smashed ala Bainbridge Vase, ect).
But we also have to keep in mind the fact that those heavier prices reflect pieces bought from the majors a little less hesitantly by clients:
If for “investment” they have a top name backing its sale history, simple enough.
If for personal keeping: its clients who were courted & generally tend to have deeper pockets, along with a relationship/trust established with the company.
In summary/conclusion:
I pointed out a number of objectively great buys also in their Japanese sale which I felt were underestimated to gain some interest (the sale seems to be grabbing well deserved attention with decent time away from its start - and with some wonderful items), but also several others which seemed to be...”ambitious” in relation to their comparisons offered.
There’s nothing wrong with offering a comp & hoping to show a bit of value potential to get heavy action: that’s the business.
The issue is the level of thoroughness in the comps used for the sale; even if hoping to reach a very good result.
It’s a wonderful piece, but if somebody buys it expecting to resell it in the near future and reach the comp’s value during 2017 (in my limited opinion)... they should do so understanding they’re taking a large risk of holding onto it for quite some time - or (more likely) will be the final owners of the piece.
This was my email (with a small redaction) on another piece they used a (very abnormal outlier of a final result) comparison for.
It explains the nuances they overlooked in doing so; along with how a more appropriate comparison would show their current listed estimate range offered is far more fitting..
(Again, it’s just my opinion..
The piece discussed in both this thread and below in my email are lovely examples - and both have the potential to be “great buys” from what appears to be a very nice sale!)
-JRN
What an interesting discussion has evolved around this vase! I won’t leave a bid due to my current financial position so I would be happy to see one of you buying this beautiful vase. In any case I’ll let you know for how much it sold.
Birgit
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