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This vase offered by Galerie Zacke looks interesting. They say it’s Daoguang and compare it with a Daoguang peaches vase which is comparing apples with pears in my opinion. They like to do that, many objects are compared with sales from big auction houses in an attempt to give them more value. I wouldn’t say they sell fakes but they are not very good at dating items.
To me the vase seems Republic of good quality. Or is it a modern fake?
Birgit
Hi Birgit,
A most beautiful and interesting vase offered by Zacke auctions.
In my opinion it's not daoguang period but later. Probable 1920's through to the early 1950's. It's difficult to pin down exactly. I don't think it's a modern interpretation.
The shendetang mark is very stiff and not period. I have provided a similar mark and period via alaintruong site for comparison.
Mark
Zacke mark
Genuine Mark & period 1821-1850
Thank you for your help, Mark. I will probably leave a bid.
Birgit
Hi Birgit,
Its a really beautiful vase and would make a wonderful addition.
I did ask Xin for his opinion after I posted a reply on the forum. He also concured republic period.
Zacke are a pretty reliable auction house. But your absolutely right about their opinions on chinese porcelain periods. They are however excellent with Japanese items.
Hope you can get it. Let us know if you do.
Mark
I have only looked through two of their 3 days of auctions so far. There were a few things that I wasn't sure they had right but I struggled to enlarge their pictures for some reason. It was rather annoying as some of their estimates seemed inviting.
I also think this vase is later. Those faces have republic look to me and they seem to have been painted in a much nicer way, with gentler expressions than some pieces. I really hope you get it, good luck!
Julia
@imperialfinegems It is very useful to compare those. Thank you for showing them like that.
@shinigami It's a very pretty vase. Do you collect a lot of republic era items?
I just think it's better than the peach vase. Good luck!
Hi Birgit -
Not really my area but I was able to enlarged the images on Zacke website and this vase looks a beautifully painted ....
I will defer to others regarding attributed dating but, as with Mark@imperialfinegems, certainly not Doaguang - the mark contains several stroke errors and each individual chracter is very stiffly drawn ...
Good luck with the bidding ...
Stuart
Thank you all. @johnshoe I have never specialized in a certain era and have collected a thin but almost complete timeline of Chinese porcelain. But the only time I have some knowledge about is late Qing and Republic, so maybe I should specialize on these.
I won’t bid too high on this vase though, because people thinking it’s Daoguang will go much higher. And with the fees and shipping from Austria it will probably get more expensive than it’s worth.
Birgit
I think if it were clearly Daoguang the estimate would be much higher and sale price , as Birgit implies, would probably be 5-10 times the estimate. Is this a time when the book on faces would be conclusive as to date?
Just to defend the auction house a little, they are only comparing the mark , not the two vases (this one and Christies)
I think you should not pay too much attention to the mark and the way it is written - different craftsman write in their own way , and there are no obvious errors in the strokes here. Sure it is stiffer in style than the Christies vase's mark , but again that is down to individual writing brushwork.
tam
The faces are very republic period. I know this because I have studied in depth republic period porcelain. Especially the eight friends of zushan. As seen throughout two books 'Chinese porcelain of the republic period by Simon Kwan' and 'Innovations and creations a retrospect of 20th century porcelain from jingdezhen'. Just to name two references I constantly use.
The style/other also crepted over into the very early PROC.
The above observations in addition to the stiff mark just further enforces the Republican period. The only exception to this rule are works by the eight friends of zushan. Due primarily in the high quality of modern interpretations that always fail to measure up to one or both the style of calligraphy and the read/seal marks.
The quality of the artistry is highly skilled in my opinion. I have seen a number of similar pieces from the Republic period.
But as pointed out by Tam it's listed as a mark and period vase. It's obviously not but some potential buyers will bid regardless of what we think or write here and be convinced otherwise etc. I concur most certainly that the estimate is very reasonable.
I can if requested post similar vases/other for comparison or study.
Mark
Yes, the combination of almost photographic faces and more loosely painted garments is typical for Republic. The book dates these from about 1920 to the end of the Republic. Daoguang faces, being 100 years earlier, look very different. As Tam said, the estimation is low for Daoguang, so they probably suspected it was later. And it’s not a Daoguang reign mark but a Shen de tang zhi mark which according to Davison’s mark book was used in Kangxi, Daoguang and Republic. Doesn’t throw a good light on the auction house.
Birgit
So, being a high quality republic piece, what do you all feel this vase is worth in today's market? Seems to me like it would be worth a lot more than 300-600. How high would you go?
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