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I received the following response from Chait Gallery NY:
‘I am unable to judge from the photo and have not handled this piece. Accordingly, I cannot offer any advice on it and refer you to the auction house for any additional questions.
Steven Chait’
@greeno107 honestly that's kind of frustrating. Being such a well-regarded gallery, I am not sure why they wouldn't be able to confirm whether or not a piece was ever sold by them? The issue I have is that is clearly not a real Chait label. I am surprised that they are not willing to just come out and say that.
@johnshoe oh I agree 100%, this one is just so blatant from a label perspective that I was expecting something along the lines of this does not appear to be one of our labels or something like that. But you are right, they are definitely going to air on the side of professionalism when it comes to an auction house, especially one that isn't fraudulent and is long-standing.
Chait said in his reply he’s never seen that pot. If an Imperial piece comes into your house you never forget it. No auction house is going to burn a bridge. This has been a very informative thread.
@greeno107 @lotusblack @jg1133
Hi Tim, Brian, Jg1133 and all -
The Kangxi marked white monochrome water pot just sold for US$12,000 hammer ...
I thought you might like to know ...
Stuart
@jg1133 Sorry to be late in my response... I was driving back from NY (Christie's). Now that I'm home in Florida, and now that we know the results of the auction, I don't think that the result is all that surprising, nor do I think the piece is without merit (but likely not period).
First, the label is puzzling, but a couple of questions come to mind. What kind of label, if any, did Chait use on late Qing/Republic period porcelains, or for that matter, pieces that they had not yet determined the age? Would they simply not put a label on a piece until they knew the age? What if the piece (when acquired by Chait) was badly damaged and did not care to invest time into establishing the age... would they simply put a blank gallery label on it? If it came to them without provenance, would they put a blank label on it until fully vetted?
I'm aware all the famous pieces from Chait had the creation period put on the label, but I don't know absolutely that they never put a blank label on piece, but I've never inquired into the matter, which brings me to my point.
Had the label been absolutely correct match to known Chait labels, would we be whistling a different tune about the authenticity? I hope not, but maybe.
Conclusion - good label, bad label.....forget about the label - judge the piece.
@lotusblack Brian, thanks for posting the side by side photos. The loss of resolution in the museum photo makes it a little hard to compare, but, YES, there is differences in the rendering.
Is it a worse rendering than the museum piece? Perhaps marginally. Enough that it could not possibly be Kangxi period? Probably not bad enough to 100% exclude the piece from being period, but my money is on a late 19th c. revival copy. Many museums have been displaying Kangi revival as genuine Kangxi for decades... it certainly could be the case, here.... an honest mistake.
Final thought. While I have no specific knowledge on the sale of this piece, I know a lot of dealers who shop Brunks. The guys I know are not foolish with their money...they would have gone to see the piece, or sent someone. And, in the WeChat world, news on stuff like this spreads very fast. So, if it was an obvious fake, given the tough times that the middle market dealers in China are facing right now, I do not think the piece would have achieved $12,000 (or should I say $15,000 with premium).
Brunks is an honest auction house, so I do not think this was deliberate inflation of the bidding, either.
However, it will be interesting to see if the buyer pays, or if the piece ends up in auction again in a few months.
This was a fun discussion and very helpful.
Cheers!
Interesting talk that was going one here. And I see Tim has shown his falangcai mallet vase once again and I have some questions I would like to ask about it. 1) Who was the man with the hat examining the vase? My guess would be Robert Chang but I'm not certain. 2) do you know who bought the vase? 3) If you knew about the two related mallet vases sold at Christie's already then why didn't you contact them about the vase? 4) Did you see the other pieces from the estate that went to Brunks
Now I have just updated a thread about a Qianlong marked gallbladder vase after I found the comp at Guardian sold for HKD 3,060,000 that had prevously been sold at Sotheby's and the counterpart of that one in the Baur foundation. The vase i have compares with some of the finest Falangcai pieces at the NPM (I first thought it was 'yangcai' enamels) and if I got it right my vase could have a potential value in the million of dollars.
But it would probably have to be examined by a real expert to confirm that it is falangcai and Qianlong period and not a later copy.
Kind regards
/Corey
@avatar if you send pictures to a good auction house and they think it might be legit then they will ask you to send it to them to be inspected in person by their experts. There are members here with personal contacts at Christie's and Sotheby's and other houses and I'm sure you could get some assistance from someone here in forwarding pictures directly to them if people think it has potential. Personally, I would ask Peter for an assessment and then take it from there. Bit if you don't want to spend the 12 bucks repost them here so we can see. There are many different members of the forum now so I'm sure it would be a fresh discussion.
1) YES! Good eye!
2) Kind of... I suspect he may have acted on the behalf of another.
3) Yes, and it is a complicated story as to why it ended up going to China. If I had to do it over, I would have sold here in the USA at Christie's.
4) No. Brunks did sell a million dollar Qianlong vase around that time that was estimated as if it was a reproduction. Same group of items? I have no idea.
Show us the falengcai vase you have! The genuine ones are so exceptional in quality that they are quite easy to identify, as long as the photos are in good light and clear.
Many thanks for taking time to answer my questions. Yes, it's an amazing story. Buying for $8 then selling for $2.2m. Wow.
I'm afraid I'm not so happy of posting anymore pictures of my vase here. Last time I posted pictures of it people commented how pretty much everything about it was wrong. Seven aspects all in all if I recall corectly. And I had to demonstrate how all these aspects were in fact correct. And the thread somehow turned in to discussion between me an Giovanni. It wasn't really a pleasent experience.
But I have your contact information so I can always send your pictures privately I guess ...
Don’t give up on your vase. I gave up on my little bowl being Guangxu M&P because of the thick enamel mark and my inability to find another quite as thick. Everything else felt right including weight, glaze, form, etc. Some on this forum thought, as I did, that the mark was not quite right. However, Brian found one that was just as thick and the exact form. Since then I’ve found more thick marks. That being said, almost assuredly there is another like yours out there. But, if I sent pictures to Peter, Christie’s and Sotheby’s and none felt it was authentic I’d say 99.9 percent chance they are right and I’m wrong. I also still have a vase with no comp. Some reputable dealers have said modern, Canton, art deco, etc etc, not Chinese, not Asian. Anyway, you get the picture. Still, won’t give up until the mystery is solved. Here’s the thick mark.
Experts and appraisers are just opinions like us they make incorrect valuations. I know of many such situations. It’s not their fault there are a lot of misunderstood pieces still out there. But one thing I have learned it doesn’t matter if one thinks it’s real and the other thinks it’s fake at all. The market will always determine its value. Your vase might not be exact and the reason is it’s not Imperial but it could be a special order which would still bring a lot of money. But if you’re going to post a topic and not show your vase it seems a little conflicting. Yes Gov. can be very strong and misunderstood but he is very experienced I haven’t seen him lately I know he was dealing with health issues and hope he’s well.
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