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Not sure about the bowl, the footrim and the black enamel are worrying for me if you hope for an 18th century dating , closer pictures of the base and foot would be helpful
The decoration looks fine in style i would say and it might be OK
Carl
I actually thought it was a English New Hall copy, because of the Orange boy in the window. As per pic below. This was a common theme used by New Hall in their copies, but those crude New Hall designs lacked the artists quality of the real Mandarin. However on researching New hall i found ( unless the item was wrongly attributed to NewHall ) some of their work which was of a very high quality and you would not easily be able to tell the difference between a real Chinese or those Newhall.
So i had an open mind about my Bowl despite it so strongly resembling A real Chinese Mandarin that it might in fact be a Newhall based on the fact that Newhall nearly always use the Orange boy in the window on their more crude copies of Chinese Mandarin and that my bowl was just a very good quality Newhall copy.
Congratulations, dear Short Dong, the vase is neither Republic nor modern but from Guangxu, around 1880. Maybe the painting quality is not the highest, but as Julia already noticed, the people are lively painted, not stiff as they would be on a modern item. The faces with the bent long noses and the double lower eyelids are so typical that Tommy Eklöf has a special category (q17) for them. For the price you paid a real bargain.
The mandarin bowl is lovely, late Qing around 1780.
Brigit,
That is amazing Detective work. I studied the Tommy Eklof pictures you discovered and you are exactly right. I studied the vase and your pictures and it has very convincingly similar hairstyle, and the line under the eyes, and the Sqaure'd away nose, and mouth and even the posture of the head, but most of all it has those earrings, which are identical.
Thanks. I would never have guessed this vase as 1880.
About NewHall...
Here are some picture from what are described as Newhall Antiques By a Website called Scottish Antiques.
Link to Antique site.
https://scottishantiques.com/British-Porcelain/New-Hall-Porcelain?product_id=12335
Wow, that is great news about the vase! I thought the foot rim looked ok, but the orange colour just didn't look right to me. But the scenes are engaging and that as Birgit says, is not what you generally expect with later wares.
As for the bowl, yes, I would say that was a girl - not being swayed by the pink dress, but the hair style. How lovely!
As for whether it is Qianlong period, my only reservation is some of the details are unfamiliar eg the background is very unfinished (and the huge figure looking out the window is odd): when so many of these items have almost excruciating detail, all the little patterns, vistas, different cartouches etc that strikes me as unusual. Also, the feet of the people and maybe the bird?
I am not saying this isn't okay, it is just me saying what I am seeing - which may all be fine. ?
Just been looking at SD's link re New Hall and it started me having doubts about this (very damaged) tea pot which I always assumed was Qianlong but there were a couple of things like the very western looking man in yellow, that eft me a little uncertain. What do you think?
Sorry about quality of pics am in a rush to get to work (spending too much time chatting on here!).
Thanks for showing the Newhall porcelain, very interesting. I didn't know they made such good copies. Usually European painting can be quite easily distinguished as far as people are depicted. I started to doubt about your bowl, but then I grouped them all in one picture. In direct comparison I think the two ladies on the left and on the right are Chinese, with the Newhall lady in the middle looking a bit different. (Look at the mouth and ears, also the way the hair is falling into the face.)
As to the vase, why not invest $12 in an appraisal by Peter Combs? I am sure it will add weight to the dating and might pay off in a higher auction result.
Dear Julia, if you have a more detailed picture of peoples' faces on your teapot I could look over it and compare it with Chinese faces.
Birgit
Thank you, dear Birgit that is very kind. I will post a couple below.
I was also amazed at how good the New Hall copies were, hence my sudden questioning of this teapot. I think it is ok, the birds are good, as is the shape and lid, I think the colours are good, too, especially the pinky-puce colour but I am not sure now that I have seen the New Hall ones. In the three faces you have put in a row, the difference can be seen. The Chinese ladies have different eye brows and their faces are not so round.
Hi Julia,
I tend to think the teapot is European. Qianlong faces have brown or red outlines, not black. Also the headgear and hairstyle look a bit nondescript, like painted by someone who had never seen them for real. Noses in Qianlong are rounded and look natural, they have no sharp angles. The fans people hold look strange, without folds and details. Also strange that almost everything on this teapot was broken, but not the handle or the tip of the spout, which are ususally the weakest parts and the first to be damaged. Maybe because the porcelain body is different. These are just some thoughts of mine however and I wouldn't be surprised if an expert said it's Qianlong.
Birgit
Thank you, that is very interesting. Especially what you said about the breaks. This tea pot has been smashed to pieces, but as you say there was no damage to the handle or the spout. The lid is intact, too.
The faces are outlined in brown, (better picture below) there are decorations on the fans (also below but not a good photo!), but as you said, no folds. There are chatter marks on the base - not sure if that is ok or not!
There are the same people on both sides of the pot, I hadn't noticed that before. The pictures you show above are much more convincing and look fine for Qianlong. Maybe it was just the quality of the first pictures that lead me on a false path, sorry.
Birgit
Don't apologise, Birgit, no need - it was me who took the photos! ? The cracking has made it hard to see some details, too. Thanks for your help, I always value your opinion.
I have another broken teapot, stapled this time, with bits missing and very different to this, that I will post in a new thread, hopefully with decent pics!?
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