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Chinese Blue white porcelain scroll pot, modern or old?

 
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 Yinchun Li
(@cozyniche)
Active Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 6
Topic starter 01/04/2021 4:58 pm  

 

 

I need some help to identify this "pot". It is about 8.25" tall and 9.5" diameter on the top. It a flat rim. It weighs close to 8 lbs, quite heavy for its size. The unpainted background looks blueish white. 

I have found that the image itself tells a famous story that alleged happened in the three countries period. It is a contest amongst the warriors for the prize(the garment) given by their master, Cao Cao(supposed the center figure standing on the platform, with his hand combing his heard). They are standing on the well known structure built by Cao cao: The Copper bird tower.

I also found that the same image appears on a mallet vase that is housed in the Gu gong palace museum. I attach a few pictures of that mallet vase. 

My question is how do you judge the age of the "pot". I'd appreciate any opinion you may have.

Thank you.

IMG 1678
IMG 1682

 

IMG 1679
IMG 1683

 


   
Quote
 Yinchun Li
(@cozyniche)
Active Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 6
Topic starter 01/04/2021 5:08 pm  
Screen Shot 2021 03 28 at 3.57.08 PM
IMG 1680

 

more images

 


   
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Brian Crowe
 Brian Crowe
(@lotusblack)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4241
01/04/2021 6:11 pm  

Store tags usually indicates modern. If they where auction tags that would change things


   
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 Yinchun Li
(@cozyniche)
Active Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 6
Topic starter 02/04/2021 12:19 am  

That is an interesting thought. Let me push the question a bit further: Had the label been gone altogether, what would you think about it? Any thing about the piece itself would make you think it is modern or old? 


   
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Brian Crowe
 Brian Crowe
(@lotusblack)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4241
02/04/2021 12:48 am  

Look for stenciling that’s good place to start if it’s printed or stencil it’s probably not old. There are some older stenciled wares. Yours looks stenciled but the pictures are grainy.


   
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Brian Crowe
 Brian Crowe
(@lotusblack)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4241
02/04/2021 12:58 am  

Do you see the 4 black marks on your pot that is where the production number was don’t know why they marked it out.


   
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springmeier
 springmeier
(@springmeier)
Prominent Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 460
02/04/2021 2:35 am  

It is a modern kangxi-style jardiniere. I don't think this is kangxi revival either. 


   
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Shinigami
 Shinigami
(@shinigami)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 4854
02/04/2021 4:32 am  

I agree it’s most probably modern though the nice hand painting and bottom don’t look bad for Kangxi revival. But the large flower pot holder form is something I rather connect with modern items. The brown dots on the foot rim are strange - a mark where to glue felt pads or points to help the painter position the motif? Maybe @imperialfinegems could take a look at the inside to see if it was hand made. 

Birgit


   
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Adams Asian Art
 Adams Asian Art
(@imperialfinegems)
Mark Adams
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7043
02/04/2021 5:20 am  

It's not conclusive. But I think it is modern machine. 


   
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Brian Crowe
 Brian Crowe
(@lotusblack)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4241
02/04/2021 9:19 am  

I see lines in the pot that look like transfer maybe the picture or lighting

DEB06018 0943 4575 842C 90C88E1C79E9
39932052 6148 4964 809B 1B40716706C9

 


   
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 Yinchun Li
(@cozyniche)
Active Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 6
Topic starter 02/04/2021 10:24 am  

@shinigami One thought on the function of this piece. I don't think it is a planter, which I thought it was at first. But I found it may be a container for scrolls(卷缸,juanGang). The main reason for my changing of mind is that a planter usually has a hole on the bottom and an underplate to go with it. The other weaker reason I don't think it is a planter is because the story in the image. The story is something better appreciated by the educated elite, which goes better in a library, sitting in the corner. 

I think the four black spots are where felts once were. The interior looks clean, with some dust.


   
Julia and Shinigami reacted
ReplyQuote
 Yinchun Li
(@cozyniche)
Active Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 6
Topic starter 02/04/2021 11:24 am  
Screen Shot 2021 04 02 at 10.17.41 AM

 

 

Screen Shot 2021 04 02 at 10.18.28 AM

Adding on to my earlier comment. If you search by"卷缸" in google, there will be a lot of images of blue and white porcelain pot pop up. They range from Ming to Qing. I have a few images of them attached here. The point is that I think the piece I posted confirms with those traditional form

Screen Shot 2021 04 02 at 10.17.24 AM

 


   
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 Ming1449
(@ming1449)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2710
02/04/2021 12:24 pm  

@cozyniche 

Hi Yinchun Li, 

Really not my area but concur with above comments - from the images this seems a modern piece ...

I would only add that the overall painting, especially the rim decoration, is rather stiff/placed and the shading is rather perfunctory ... 

Stuart 


   
ReplyQuote
 Yinchun Li
(@cozyniche)
Active Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 6
Topic starter 03/04/2021 12:44 am  

I appreciate that you provide me your first impression of it. I suspected it is modern, for a different reason. 

I think the painting has a good composition, but the execution is problematic. I like the handling of the two right most standing figures. But like you say, the shading is quite rushed, especially the background. 

 

thank you

Yinchun


   
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