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Hi all, so as promised here is the lamped Mirror black vase. I was hoping and praying it was as flawless as it turned out to be. I suspect it is earlier than initially I thought (19th rather than 20th). The gilding is virtually flawless, two small spots of rubbing. The rim thins to brown, and the base has a Kangxi mark. It is also a whopping 17" tall. what do you all think?
-Jeremy
p.s. sorry for the limited lighting, it barely fits in my photo light box.
I don’t see any glazed chipped from the base? Gilding looks burnished can you verify this?
Look at the flower see all those lines in the gilding running one direction that looks burnished to me. Burnished gilding tend to be on earlier gilding due to the fire gilding process leaves the gild dull it is burnished with a agate tool to bring that gold luster back.
Jeremy,
Your vase is very nice and in great condition. I really like it. Unfortunately, I know nothing about these wares, but I hope it turns out to be earlier, as you suspect. Will be following closely!
@lotusblack,
Do you mind sharing where you've learned about gilding methods? You mentioned it in passing on one of my bowls, and I've been curious ever since.
Kindly,
John
Interesting, I do see the lines, I assumed that might be wear. As far as the foot there isn't much chipping but it appears to be ground, and I think the early ones the glaze ends neatly, but honestly I cannot find much detailed info on the mirror-black glazed pieces.
-Jeremy
@jbeer2121 I wonder if the grind down the lip. I’m not saying it’s Kangxi the base and shape don’t seem just right. But the gilding places it before late Qing second half of 19th century gilding practices changed and new gild in that period didn’t need burnished.
Perhaps around 1800-1850s which I think is around the time the gilding methods change to powdered gold paint?
-Jeremy
@bartholin I had a bowl myself with dating issues so I started with research on gilding from French pieces Porcelain furniture etc because Chinese gilding of the same period was hard to come by. After I noticed gilding practices changed I went to every antique store and collection that would let me look at their pieces under a loop. I noticed that older forms of gilding needed burnished and later pieces didn’t but one feature I did notice about earlier gilding and modern was the gold purity. The older the piece the purity of gold was noticeable under a loop looks like little micro balls very low to no alloys modern gild is loaded with everything the more the rainbow the later it is. The transitional time the gold has a halo where the powered method is used.
Thanks for the thorough explanation.
That is super interesting and of course I have been obsessing over a handful of my gilt decorated things with a loupe trying to assess the type of gilding. Interestingly the french pieces, which are mostly early 19th century seem to have more than gold mixed in and its rather granule and compared to this vase, which is definitely burnished, far less refined. An early Caughley teapot I have is definitely powdered gold suspended in a clear "enamel?"and has a halo effect of sorts.
Learn something new every day...
-Jeremy
I’m no expert but I figure there is science to old gilding practices and current. If burnished I start thinking old the powder gold enamel I see that a lot in late 18th mid 19th the rainbow stuff 19th century the shiny 20th century. When I shopping if I see something burnished I just buy it if cheap.
I went to a dinner last night with a very prominent local Japanese antique dealer and he and his wife both collect Chinese and Japanese pieces, we had an interesting discussion on gilding as he sees dating pieces, I can confirm that you are spot on with you line of thought on the date ranges as it aligns perfectly with what he has seen over his 50 plus year career. I did bring the vase along with a few other pieces and he thinks it fits right in with mid 19th century, thought the gilding being burnished may suggest slightly earlier.
-Jeremy
I can not contribute to the methodology of how gilt mirror black vases are made. However, as the mark indicates, the style originates from the Kangxi, similar to Famille Noir. Mid Qing, the style mostly lost popularity, so there are really not that many examples from the late 18th to early 19th c. However, that changes in the late 19th c. during the revival of Kangxi style porcelains.
This is the likely dating of your vase. The better attention to the foot ring, large size, and use of a six character mark instead of just the double rings (or no mark at all) simply suggests that it was made with more care, and not that it is any older than the more rushed/sloppy examples of the same late 19th c. period.
Dear Jeremy,
I too am not a real expert, but I am sure that the lines seen on the gilded areas (especially on the petals of the flowers) has nothing to do with burnishing. If the Japanese expert said that, he is wrong.
Burnishing the gold gilding with agate will not produce lines; rather on the contrary, it would remove them.
The action of burnishing is making the surface of the gilding perfectly smooth and even, which will increase light reflection.
It is true that it was in use in older times, because it is associated with gilding through melting the gold powder in mercury, but it is not the case of your vase.
Your vase is not Kangxi, the base/foot is excluding that, as is also the appearance of the gilding.
At the same time, the appearance of the gilding is also excluding that it is a second half of 20th century onwards.
Hence, it should be late 19th/early 20th century. Kangxi revival as said by others.
Regards
Giovanni
Thanks for the reply, and I do agree that it is more likely to be Kangxi Revival and the quality is just better than average. I actually found a very similar one that was late 19th century.
I also what to thank you, for the gilding explanation and it makes sense that the burnishing would remove the lines rather than make them. I should note that I cannot recall if he described the vase's gilding as burnished, and more likely he would not have been mistaken and it is I who misunderstood.
Any ways thank you both.
Jeremy
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