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The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art

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88Teo88
 88Teo88
(@88teo88)
Prominent Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 444
Topic starter 22/11/2023 8:06 pm  

Hi Guys:)

I really like this bowl, but It is not Xuande, right? I'm not good at Ming era, for me the blue colour is not as deep blue like generally there is on the Xuande items. 

What do you think? 

https://www.catawiki.com/en/l/76837609-alms-bowl-bowl-narcissus-bowl-1-porcelain-kintsugi-repair-lot-s0082-china-ming-dynasty-1368-1644

Thank you: Teo:)


   
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Shinigami
 Shinigami
(@shinigami)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 4836
23/11/2023 2:18 am  

I don't know if a Hongkong dealer can be trusted. Don't they fall under the Chinese export law that prohibits the sale of antiques? Recently I have the impression that kintsugi repairs abound. Could they be the new felt pads or tea soaked paper labels?

Birgit


   
Preston Barski, 88Teo88, Ming1449 and 1 people reacted
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 Julia
(@julia)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7221
23/11/2023 2:26 am  

This dealer sells a lot of nice-looking pieces, but I have heard they are not all what he claims they are. I love the repair, however I don't know if it is the real thing. Maybe Stuart will see this.

All I can say is that I am always wary of pieces that have the marked within tight circles. It looks uncomfortable, as though the person who did it was scared to space it out more. 

That is probably absolute fanciful nonsense, still it puts me off especially if other thing's are a concern.😊 


   
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JIAWEI HE
 JIAWEI HE
(@jiawei-he)
Honorable Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 484
23/11/2023 3:52 am  

interesting question

i ll answer after bidding is closed


   
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Brian Crowe
 Brian Crowe
(@lotusblack)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4237
23/11/2023 9:00 am  

Doesn’t look right for Ming maybe 19th century at best.


   
88Teo88, Ming1449 and Shinigami reacted
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Michael M.
 Michael M.
(@iluvatar)
Prominent Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 555
23/11/2023 10:21 am  

Bowl is very attractive, well-painted dragon and decoration, the footrim looks a bit suspicious to me, but I've said it before and I say it again, blue and white is not my area, really. Also, the 5-clawed dragon again. Does this look good enough to be Imperial? I can't really judge that, but to me it looks pretty good quality wise (authenticity, I cannot judge).

The export ban might not apply here, because it is as damaged as it is (the way I understand it, antique broken items and more common objects can be taken out of China (with the right permits), there also might still be special rules for Hong Kong, I'm sure someone more knowledgeable can chime in on that).

~ Decorative Arts, Antiques and Accessories, at Mollari's ~ www.mollaris.com


   
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 Ming1449
(@ming1449)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2700
23/11/2023 10:34 am  

@88teo88

Hi Teo - 

This is a modern copy of a well know, in some respects, Imperial Xuande design ...

I will not go into to many details, as the fakers/copiest monitor this and other forums, but the painting style and motif detailing are wrong when compared with authentic Xuande pieces ...

This has been made, broken, then repaired to deliberately decive the 'unwary' ...

Leave well alone and walk away ...

Stuart 

 


   
88Teo88, Michael M., William Huvar and 3 people reacted
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88Teo88
 88Teo88
(@88teo88)
Prominent Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 444
Topic starter 25/11/2023 10:02 pm  

Thank you so much Guys:)

Thank you Stuart:) it was really helpful, I think getting an original Xuande piece is a dream 😀

That's the truth, even though it is fake, it is still beautiful to my eyes:) the dragon, the correction, everything:)

I was thinking about it very much, and I have a question in my mind, if it had been a Xuande piece, it would have been an imperial piece, and if it had been an imperial piece it would have cost much more despite being broken. I think... 🙂

 

@julia no, no , no, you were right, for me the marks and the circles together were weird,

they look new, I couldn't feel that old vibe, too precise


   
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JIAWEI HE
 JIAWEI HE
(@jiawei-he)
Honorable Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 484
26/11/2023 12:21 am  

it is a fa ke


   
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JIAWEI HE
 JIAWEI HE
(@jiawei-he)
Honorable Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 484
26/11/2023 12:23 am  

i will talk about xuande later when free

 


   
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JIAWEI HE
 JIAWEI HE
(@jiawei-he)
Honorable Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 484
26/11/2023 12:27 am  

the footrim of the item is primary level fake for now


   
ReplyQuote
JIAWEI HE
 JIAWEI HE
(@jiawei-he)
Honorable Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 484
26/11/2023 12:29 am  

even a broken piece like this sells at around 100000 rmb at least


   
ReplyQuote
JIAWEI HE
 JIAWEI HE
(@jiawei-he)
Honorable Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 484
26/11/2023 12:35 am  

and imperial bowls are not to be exported,esp broken pieces after 1949


   
ReplyQuote
JIAWEI HE
 JIAWEI HE
(@jiawei-he)
Honorable Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 484
26/11/2023 12:54 am  

let me show u some pics of jingdezhen famous collector mr luo”s items

A0095BB1 02D6 487F B3C9 3332869C34B9
D6037CB7 B1A8 4B24 9957 C979EE125401
8DC09D4F 5A15 4638 8210 155C9DA45690
C426CDB1 2B57 4774 8719 97016F3682C8
222D3151 84E4 44E6 A060 546E67B106BB
C1FC6996 6C52 4254 8F59 A4A030EC2D32

   
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Brian Crowe
 Brian Crowe
(@lotusblack)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4237
26/11/2023 11:45 am  

Expensive fakes these days.


   
88Teo88, Ming1449 and Adams Asian Art reacted
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