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The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art
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@yinchris Thanks Yin, very useful indeed, good to know what it says. It looks like the regular script has been used and came into the mainstream in the 5th century. Interesting to know that they are tang dynasty poems, not by the Qianlong emperor.
Here are side my side photos of the boys from subject piece andChristie’s example….
I think this is an unfair comparrison. The vase with the boys is twice as big, so the painter would have 4 x the area to paint detail. The brush pot is much smaller, so the will leave the painter with less space and therefore be less detailed..
Sorry, Thomas, it was all I could find in a hurry and I only wanted to compare the faces - for positive reasons. I think the faces are a very fair comparison showing they may have been an interpretation of a Qianlong style but are very much of the Republic period.
The only reason I have expressed doubt is because I do not have very much depth knowledge of Republic porcelains ie I can see that this style fits well in that era, but I don't know enough to judge if it is a copy. Also, there is that head wear which interests me; I am still looking for on other pieces because it serves a purpose to know these things. Besides, anachronistic elements matter.
@lotusblack Brian, I can’t make a comparison with the piece you own and this Sotheby’s example without seeing both (obviously).
But, may I suggest you repost in a separate thread if you want to re-evaluate it.
The Republic example you cite from Sotheby’s that shows calligraphy with nice archaic script with faux bois, and is different than Thomas’ brush pot in that it does not try and combine multiple famous themes all in one.
Your brush pot looks to be 4” tall and rectangular.
But, the Christie’s vase is only decorated from below the shoulder. The neck and mouth of the vase takes up about 1/3 of the size, so the area of decoration is therefore quite similar to your brush pot.
Given the skill I’ve seen demonstrated in Republic period snuff bottles (much smaller than your brush pot), your brush pot offers more than enough space for the careful and detailed design one should expect with a famous scene of boys.
Again, I’m not particularly fond of debating line color, shadows, and such on faces, but there is a clear difference in the quality of rendering between your vase and the Christie’s Republic ‘boys’ vase.
The combination of lesser quality rendering of boys, the loose calligraphy, and incorrect use of 6 character instead of 4 character mark, all are concerning aspects when considering authenticity.
But, for me, subject matter is the most important aspect of authenticity- the meaning (rebus) of the design must make sense, and I’m not sure it does on your pot.
Boy’s Day scenes are wishes for abundance.
According to Christie’s, ‘quail’ in Chinese bears the character an, which is a pun for 'peace'. Quail are often combined with millet or chrysanthemum to create more complex rebus meanings.
Both ‘boys’ and ‘quail’ are important rebuses, but they never appears together except in your brush pot (that I can find).
So, if your brush pot is genuine and the one and only example combing these themes, then you should be very much rewarded if/when you bring it to auction.
However, I think past is prologue, and invented designs generally turn out to be reproductions by misinformed artists attempting to copy the style.
So, the scene is known, and if the only issue are the discrepancies with the quality of the rendering, than perhaps your brush pot is Republic in period.
Sorry for the grilling- all done in the spirit of academia - nothing personal!
@greeno107 most of the education I have learned is from such grilling it is what makes you dig deeper into the subject. Its a fundamental part of Asian arts.
@greeno107 Don't worry, I very much appreciate you taking the time to find these details and the knowledge you have to share. The more I post on this forum the more I realise how little I know.. ( ;
The examples cited by Brian is a excellent source of the slightly lower quality that was being produced during the time.
Later more newer examples tend to be of a very high standard. Incidentally I was conversing with Xin the other night and he also agreed that it 'could be' republican.
Distinguishing between Republican and newer is or has been very problematic in recent times. I have seen some phenomenal new pieces being taunted as republican.
Genuine tends to be lighter in comparison. The overall look/feel has I submit more of a certain look to it with regard to the glaze. This is to do with the difference between wood fired and gas kilns.
@imperialfinegems sounds like the new "brand new" pieces being produced in China are still a good investment. If they really are as excellent as you say.
Here is probably the best know bois brush pot from the yongzheng period that sold at christies in 2016 for 35 million HK dollars.
Below it is a copy. With added staple repairs that sold at RM Auctions for €96.
Not sure even though they are high quality whether they are a good/sound investment. I don't think they are. Nor will they be in the foreseeable future. The reasoning is even though high quality they are being mass produced.
Of course it's just not limited to brush pots. Plaques and vases too. Copies of the famous 'eight friends of zushan' are being produced in massive numbers in china. Some not all are close to the masters work. But they are still mass produced copies and hence in my opinion are not worth collecting.
Yours on the other hand is not a mass produced copy and is in my opinion as previously posted a genuine example from the Republic period.
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The art of calligraphy - and for the ancient Chinese it certainly was an art - aimed to demonstrate superior control and skill using brush and ink. Calligraphy established itself as one of the major Chinese art forms during the Han dynasty (206 BCE - 220 CE), and for two millennia after, all educated men were expected to be proficient at it.
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Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars. We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. ... Chinese Art (US) General enquiries
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Bonhams are international auctioneers of fine Chinese and Japanese art. We specialise in rare Imperial and Export Chinese ceramics and works of art, as well as Japanese ceramics, fine and decorative works of art from the Neolithic Period to the 20th century. View on map
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Basic Rules For the BidAmount Asian Art Forum: Talk about whatever you want. You can even discuss and offer things that are for sale if they are authentic. Maximum image file size per post is 2 MB. Images of 700pxl x 700pxl are optimal if saved at a medium resolution. Be respectful of others and enjoy yourself. Click the YouTube link for a brief tutorial on using the forum. You can also EMBED Videos by cutting and pasting from You-Tube, Vimeo etc. 
