The Chinese and Asian Art Forum. For Fans, Collectors and Dealers.
Basic Rules For the BidAmount Asian Art Forum: Talk about whatever you want. You can even discuss and offer things that are for sale if they are authentic. Maximum image file size per post is 2 MB. Images of 700pxl x 700pxl are optimal if saved at a medium resolution. Be respectful of others and enjoy yourself. Click the YouTube link for a brief tutorial on using the forum. You can also EMBED Videos by cutting and pasting from You-Tube, Vimeo etc.
NOTE: To post an item or add a new post, click open the category title from the FORUM LIST, and CLICK the Blue ADD TOPIC button.
Hello there. The owner of the plate says that the plate was taken by his grandfather from Saudi Arabia in 1905. Is this plate an example of Asian art? What do you think about pattern quality. What is the sign of a sandy base?
goxu
Hi Goxu,
I am sure this pattern has been discussed on here, before. Sadly, I can't find it or remember what was said. It wouldn't have given you any guarantee of the plate's authenticity, but may have helped in some way.
As for a sandy base, it could be a sign someone is trying to deceive you. Single elements such as that shouldn't be viewed in isolation but as part of the whole thing ie the shape, the colours, the glaze, even the way it feels in your hand.
For what it is worth, I find the rear decoration a little strange and unbalanced. It looks as though there should be 4 symbols, not three and one of the double circles seems to disappear for a while.
I am sure someone else will be able to help more explicitly.
Julia
I agree this is a low-quality modern piece , the decoration on the front is very poor - the centre motif should be the chinese character for happiness or the shou character, but it is terribly done , and the clouds and radiating lines are childish and unattractive , imo
tam
For comparison: this is an authentic Daoguang plate from the Desaru shipwreck, therefore the glaze is missing. Apart from that not too different from Goxu‘s example I think. This pattern was produced in large amounts during the first half of the 19th century.
Birgit
Thank you Birgit for similar example. According to my research, pilgrims who went to Arabia in the 19th century took their zemzem water and dates to their countries with porcelain bottles and plates. These porcelain products were imported from China to sell to pilgrims by Arabs. I have seen that these porcelains are made more sloppy than similar samples sent to other countries.
goxu
Well, I would say these are completely different kinds of objects:
mainly in the care taken over the painting of the clouds and radiating lines, and the quality and nature of the porcelain material - it's true they are superficially similar but I believe yours is a modern fake , probably made by copying the auction catalogue pictures.
tam
I thought it might be a modern fake. I finally decided to buy it because I thought the plate was too sloppy to be fake. I hope I made the right decision. Maybe his patterns were drawn by an apprentice. Or the boss delayed that month's wages.
goxu
Hi Goxu -
Although I can only view images on my iPhone at present, I would concur with the above comments - a very recent copy of a known design ...
Stuart
I'm sorry, I don't want to take much time. But the plate is owned by an old and respected lady. I talked to her. She says with great certainty that her grandfather bought the platter from Arabia during the pilgrimage visit during the Ottoman state in the early 1900s. The plate could be a copy made on those dates. But are you sure it's a modern fake?
goxu
A few more versions of the plate. Can you describe them as modern fake or recent copy?
goxu
Dear Goxu,
this is the first time, I think, that I have a different opinion than that of Stuart😊.
I am sure that the reason is because he is looking at the pictures on the phone.
I do not agree with the opinion of others here, your plate is about end of 19th - beginning of 20th century and what especially tells this is just the base.
You may have misguided the opinion of others here in calling the base “sandy”. I do not think that there is sand there, you may have been referred to the appearance only.
This unglazed base and foot, with many minute dark spots is common on folk ware of that period. It is especially seen on dishes with a single big fish, see the pictures attached here.
Regards,
Giovanni
Dear Giovanni -
You are more the welcome, as is everyone else, to disagree with me at anytime😊 ...
I learnt a long time ago to defer, and try and learn from, others with far greater experience then I, especially within the different fields of Asian art - and there are such tremendous knowledge people within this forum🙂 😊 ...
Warmest regards'
Stuart
Hi Goxu -
Giovanni has raised some interesting thoughts/opinions regarding the foot/base, and also provided a good example for comparison in the fish dish base image, which displays the typical numerous, random dark spots found on such wares.
Now I have access to larger images again, it is obvious that this feature, as he correctly points out, is also present on the foot/base of your dish. The overall painting style of the design is, as already mentioned, very poorly executed and clearly a continuation of/later copy of that which, as Birgit mentions, were produced in large numbers throughout the first half of the 19th century ...
Unless back up by cast-iron provenance such as photos/drawings/written records/receipts, I have learnt to be somewhat weary of 'old family stories' regarding antiques over the years. However based on the close similarities with the foot/base, and Giovanni's experience on such wares, I now think your dish is a late 19th/early 20th century folk piece, the design copying the earlier 19th century pattern - IMO ...
Stuart
Thank you for your help. I bought the plate. I am so happy
goxu
Dear Stuart,
thank you.
To be precise, that myriad of minute black spots is not in the paste, it is just dirty trapped in the many pits of the paste. I never did it on such plates, but I am convinced that, after a bath in water with enzyme-based detergent, they will disappear.
What makes a big difference here is the type of paste, which surface is not sugary white like we see on later pieces, it is matte white and, although you can feel the pits, smooth to touch.
I fully agree with you that such stories of pieces bought by grand-grand fathers etc. are generally not worth to be taken into account, but in this case the lady was probably right. I say “probably” because I do not know if these plates were indeed imported in Saudi Arabia, but it may well be true.
Regards,
Giovanni
Latest Post: Ebay buyer demans Taxfraud what should i do Our newest member: Povilas Mickevicius Recent Posts Unread Posts
Thanks for visiting "The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art"
If you sell on eBay, or have a shop feel free to post images and descriptions and links.
Check back often for discussion about the latest news in the Chinese art and antique world. Also find out about the latest Asian art auctions at Sotheby's, Christie's, Bonhams and Tajans.
Auction results for: fine porcelain, ceramics, bronze, jade, textiles and scholar's objects. As well as Japanese, Thai, Vietnamese and other Asian cultures.
Thank you,
Peter Combs
Topics and categories on The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art
Kangxi vases, Kangxi dishes and chargers, Kangxi ritual pieces, Kangxi scholar's objects, Qianlong famille rose, Qianlong enamels, Qianlong period paintings, Qianlong Emporer's court, Fine porcelain of the Yongzheng period. Chinese imperial art, Ming porcelain including Jiajing, Wanli, Xuande, Chenghua as well as Ming jades and bronzes.
Join the BidAmount Chinese and Asian art discussion board and forum today
The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art
A free Asian art discussion board and Asian art message board for dealers and collectors of art and antiques from China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam and the rest of Asia. Linked to all of the BidAmount Asian art reference areas, with videos from plcombs Asian Art and Bidamount on YouTube. Sign up also for the weekly BidAmount newsletter and catalogs of active eBay listing of Chinese porcelain, bronze, jades, robes, and paintings.
The art of calligraphy - and for the ancient Chinese it certainly was an art - aimed to demonstrate superior control and skill using brush and ink. Calligraphy established itself as one of the major Chinese art forms during the Han dynasty (206 BCE - 220 CE), and for two millennia after, all educated men were expected to be proficient at it.
The Museum’s collections of Asian art span nearly five millennia and encompass the cultures of China, the Himalayas, India, Japan, Korea, and Southeast Asia. In 2007, the Museum launched an initiative to create dedicated galleries for the collection, beginning with a gallery for the arts of Korea ...
Chinese art is full of symbolism, in that artists typically seek to depict some aspect of a totality of which they are intuitively aware.
China Online Museum is the finest online museum of Chinese art. It features Chinese calligraphy, painting, ceramics, bronzes, carving, and other artworks.
Chinese Ceramics & Works of Art. Overview Upcoming auctions Contacts Auction results ... Christie’s sales of Chinese ceramics and works of art showcase centuries of Chinese history. Held throughout the year in London, New York, Paris and Hong Kong, they attract a wide audience of collectors and connoisseurs vying for pieces as diverse as ...
Explore Asian Art Week. Contact the Specialist Department. Chinese Paintings ... Senior Specialist, Head of Sale. [email protected]. Tel:+1 212 641 5760. Bid in-person or online for the upcoming auction:Fine Chinese Paintings on 10 September 2019 at New York. Bid in-person or online for the upcoming auction:Fine Chinese Paintings on 10 ...
Discover an abundance of must-see art from all corners of a vast continent at Christie’s NY Asian Art Week. From contemporary classical and Chinese paintings to works with exemplary provenance from the Art Institute of Chicago, our Rockefeller Paza galleries will be full of ancient treasures and contemporary masterworks in a salute to the vibrant arts of Asia.
Sold to benefit The Art Institute of Chicago’s Asian Art Acquisition Fund, the sale features 84 lots with a focus on Ming and Qing porcelains, and offers a rare insight into the taste for collecting Chinese ceramics and works of art in the Midwest from the end of the 19th century through the 1980s. Highlights include two Wanli wucai garlic-head vases, a Qianlong mark and period, blue and ...
Specialist, Chinese Paintings, Christie's London Dr Malcolm McNeill is a Specialist in Chinese Paintings at Christie’s, based in London. He previously worked as an assistant curator of the Chinese collections and the Victoria and Albert Museum in London, as a researcher at the British Museum, and as a translator and tour guide at the National Palace Museum in Taipei.
The Christie's Education 2020 Conference: The Chinese Art Market 18 Jun 2019 Christie’s Education is delighted to announce our first international academic conference in Asia which will take place in Hong Kong from 26-27 November 2020 at the Hong Kong Convention and Exhibition Centre and will run in parallel with Christie’s Hong Kong Autumn Auctions.
The summer Chinese Art sale in Hong Kong will feature works of art from several private collections, including Qing porcelains and textile from the collection of the legendary Chinese art dealer A. W. Bahr (1877–1959), fine gilt bronze Buddhist sculptures from an old Hong Kong collection, an East Asian collection of Qing dynasty wine cups and jades, and a Japanese collection of Song ceramics ...
Sotheby's Chinese Works of Art Department holds two auctions each year in London, New York, Hong Kong and Paris.
Chinese Art - View Auction details, bid, buy and collect the various artworks at Sothebys Art Auction House.
With more than 340 Chinese works of art dating from the Neolithic to the Republic periods, highlights of this sale include a selection of Qing Imperial monochromes from the collection of Arnold and Blema Steinberg, early ceramics from the Art Institute of Chicago and Chinese porcelain and works of art from the collection of Henry Arnhold.
Results: Sotheby's Asia Week achieved $52.4 million in six strong auctions, exceeding pre-sale estimates. With 76.5% of lots sold and 60.3% of lots surpassing high estimates, the Asian art sales at Sotheby's indicate continued collector interest in the finest works of art from China, India and and the Himalayas.
Today's sale of Important Chinese Art will proceed as planned with sessions at 10 AM and 2 PM EDT. Sotheby's will be monitoring the weather conditions throughout the day and will be available to coordinate alternative bidding options should conditions make it difficult for clients to attend the auction in person.
Bonhams Chinese Art department is renowned for offering the finest works of art representing the richness and breadth of China's artistic heritage, particularly Imperial porcelain, white and spinach green jades, cloisonné and Buddhist art. Specialised international auctions are held globally, including London, Hong Kong and San Francisco.
Bonhams : Chinese Works of Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. Please refer to our privacy and cookie policies for more information.
Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars. We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. ... Chinese Art (US) General enquiries
Bonhams : Fine Chinese Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. Please refer to our privacy and cookie policies for more information.
Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars Bonhams : Asian Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site.
Bonhams are international auctioneers of fine Chinese and Japanese art. We specialise in rare Imperial and Export Chinese ceramics and works of art, as well as Japanese ceramics, fine and decorative works of art from the Neolithic Period to the 20th century. View on map
Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars. We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. ... Asian Art Bonhams. Work. 22 Queen St.