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Didn’t Peter recently mention something about wear on old black ink outlines?
Didn’t Peter recently mention something about wear on old black ink outlines?
Some one did. Probably from the video
Christian, there are a few differences between all of them. It is very interesting, but how big was the service? How many people must have worked on it? Did they have a pattern to follow or just general guidelines? Did different sized pieces have slightly different styles? The Guest and Gray don't have the rings, but we don't know if the Sotheby's one does.
You will find Jeremy's link interesting, I had forgotten all that. I do still feel yours may be a later 18th c replacement, but I hadn't thought about a Kangxi blank. The Delft copies I posted don't clarify the material, but as it said Delft I assumed earthenware.
It is all so interesting. So great to have this forum.
@jbeer2121 I read your link... a very nice plate from the Museum of Fine Art in Boston...Spooner family...Wow!
So, I think you've hit the nail on the head with a very reasonable explanation, a Kangxi blank with a later European decoration.
In fact, your explination dispells much of my concerns of foul play. If blanks exist of plates, then it is likely there are blanks of other forms (bowls, cups, and even vases) that were decorated at later periods by Europeans looking to emmulate Chinese designs.
And, as was commented about your Spooner plate, the dark lines seem to be the underlying clue to recognizing European workmanship.
I'd say mystery solved!
One thing.... Gotheborg.com states that the empty circles of the Kangxi are from the earlier period (17th c.), not the late Kangxi. You mentioned that you felt the foot was late Kangxi, so perhaps this is the only minor descrepency in the theory.
During the early Qing dynasty, up until the early 1680's conditions were unsettled in China and the existence of Imperial wares as well as the use of reign marks on porcelain was restricted in various ways. During this period a number of different marks came into use, as well as two empty rings which in a way could be considered a period marking if not Imperial. - www.Gotheborg.com
Tim,
Yeah, John's plates are pretty fantastic. I suspect that the blanks can date from a wide range, I said late Kangxi, but really I meant more so the period that the armorial is from. I am posting a picture of the chart I have of when the Fenwick set was ordered, 1715, and I suspect a European replacement would be later, after its arrival to Europe, perhaps to replace one or some that were broken in transit. I own a European replacement dish, made in England, likely Bristol, could be a blank made by Worcester, around 1780-1800... Arms of Stanley impaling Granville. I will have to wait for a picture of the reverse, since it is at the shop and I am quarantining at the moment, due to mother mother having the plague and I being the only one who can make Chicken soup for her. But you can see the face, and though good quality decoration, it lacks the finesse of the Chinese plates.
Cheers,
Jeremy
Fenwick Order:
My English replacement:
Here is a comparison of the bont bowl and the reverse of John's plate, note the sketchiness of the red parts, and the specific color.
Hey Folks,
Finally got a picture of the reverse of the English plate, note the foot is similar to a Chinese example however it is mostly glazed over, also note the red flower sprigs again, something else that seems common in these types of replacements.
Hope this helps,
Jeremy
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