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My take on these plates the pictures are to bad for anyone to make an opinion without clear focused photos no one can give and accurate assessment. Adjust you phones filters or use you magic wand filter only.
@lotusblack I'm only showing one plate. Did you see the last picture in the sunlight and is that better? It seems we've basically determined it's not old. I'm still confused because of the grittiness of the foot and the chatter marks. And, I was hoping someone would weigh their known authentic 6" plate to see if mine is way off. And, I don't think I saw a Japanese example with the same back decoration as mine, but I could be wrong. I've looked at too many to remember correctly. But, I'm thinking mine must be a Chinese repro of a Japanese Kraak plate... as, I believe, Jeremy may have mentioned earlier.
I have a couple of kraak-style plates that I posted on here several years ago. I will see if I can find the thread.
@julia thanks Julia. I didn't find your thread, but did find a thread on Gotheborg that I will add soon.
I'm hoping this thread is ok and will work for those interested.
https://www.gotheborg.com/cgi-bin/discus/board-auth.cgi?file=/50282/149775.html
It's called "Blue and White Arita/Hisen Porcelain: Negligent decoration - dating? Arita kraak."
If it doesn't work for you, Timothy Coram, who some on the site thought was very knowledgable in this area, showed two plates with the same exact decoration as mine. He called them Rinaldi Border VII-3 group. They were from the late 17thC and both were about 21 cm, one had 3 spur marks and the other had 1. He called them Arita "Grasshopper Pattern." Neither of his had fritting or typical authentic Chinese Kraak flaws. I believe I also can see chatter marks on one. His have the barbed rim and he believes the rounded rims from Arita were made later and "specifically for the European market." Also, someone on that thread said it was possible that some of the Japanese Arita ones may not have spur marks. I believe this would fit all my plate descriptions. The only question I have yet is the age... how much later? Thanks everyone for your help.
Hi -
Just for comparison, image from ‘Blue and White, Chinese Porcelain around the World’, page 192, by Prof John Carswell’s, British Museum Press, 2000, including a straight rimed Japanese dish, attributed to 17th century with very similar decoration …
Stuart
@lotusblack If you click on the photos, they enlarge and are quite clear, at least on my devices.
Hi,
Sorry I haven't had a chance to really get back to you, just running around here this week.
I have time this weekend to get more clear on this stuff.
Just really quick:
The Kraak dishes I posted before are just between 5.5-6" so take from that what you will. between 145g and 158g the ones with tons of grit are obviously on the higher side. I have about 7 that I threw on a scale quickly so average I guess is about 150g.
Secondly I have only ever had one with no fritting, but it did have flaws under the glaze that I assume would eventually chip off if hit, which is what causes that problem on this period's wares. I sold it a while back, mostly because it was flawless and worth a good bit, but also because I didn't want to be the one to cause its first frit in 300 years. lol
Lastly, from your new pics I was going tosay Arita, definitely not Kyoyaki, and probably late Edo, still rather stiff for my liking though so I'm still not sure how I feel. The ones shown on Gotheborg are in a similar vein just more authentically painted IMHO, freely drawn, and the glaze is different looking compared to yours. Also the shade of cobalt on you dish is much much more common post Edo, even in the sun it doesn't seem vibrant enough to me.
Sorry for errors, or lacking info, literally running out the door.... post maybe Tomorrow.
Cheers,
Jeremy
@jbeer2121 thanks Jeremy. So my 6" plate is much heavier at 220g, which is what I thought when I first picked it up. Yes, the ones shown on Gotheborg are late 17thC and mine does look too carefully/stiffly drawn. I guess another question if you would happen to know. Do you know when the Japanese had a little kiln grit? Actually, maybe it's not kiln grit and simply grit in the porcelain, because it's not much. Thanks again so much for your responses.
Here is the plate from 17th C and my later copy. Almost like my artist was looking at it.
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