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Hi everyone,
so my enjoyable struggle with deciphering Chinese porcelain continues. Please find attached two jars that I have.
The smaller if the two (left) is, I think, fairly modern, made yesterday? The colour is quite washed. The painting doesn’t seem particularly well done but I’ve seen worse! The intriguing thing about this jar is that it is VERY heavy, much heavier than the larger jar on the right. It has the heft of stoneware pottery. What are your thoughts?
The larger jar is very dirty. But I’m confused by the colour of the clay body. It is a milky coffee colour. The octopus swirls remind me of patterns I’ve seen on the back of Japanese Imari plates. I don’t think the lid is original, it doesn’t fit very well and is a different colour. The underglaze blue has a slight ‘flow blue’ effect.
Nic
Hi Nic,
The jar on the left looks very nice, maybe 18th c. Heavy is good, but should not be too heavy. Then it's bad. Modern fakes are often too heavy. Your photos are not good enough to see the painting.
The right one is also old (much later) which are often used in the kitchen, provincial product, bad clay quality.
We need better pictures.
www.wyssemaria-art.com
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I like the one on the left, too. Better pictures would help immensely, but from what I can see I would agree with Xin: it does look like it may be 18th c. Of course, clearer pictures may make me change my mind, but whilst this seems to be painted in a commonly occurring pattern it looks to have more detail and be better painted than more recent examples (I think there are possibly some on this site).
I'd say the shape looks good for 18th c, too.
Julia
Hi Xin and Julia,
I am naturally a bad photographer and I’m also relying on the camera on my iPad which is not ideal. So apologies! The jar is 5 inches tall and weighs 758g.
I’m not sure if these are any better.
The composition of and elements (rocks with lines) in this painting point to Kangxi style. But it’s not Kangxi. The painting is not fine enough to be Kangxi. The underglaze blue floats in the glaze and looks a little bit blurry which is quite typical for Qianlong. The boarder between glaze the body on top is well done but little bit zigzag which often seen on Qianlong pieces. Foot looks also well done and also Qianlong style. Plus very good quality of clay.
www.wyssemaria-art.com
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Dear Nic,
I agree with Xin, it is a nice old jar. The decoration is recalling the "Master of the rock" style.
Is there a reason why you are showing only the same side and not the other side too?
If I may give a suggestion, any digital camera, even in the range of only 100 dollars, is much better than taking pictures with the phone.
Here for example, we do not see the correct shape of the jar because you had to come too much close to it.
Giovanni
That’s a lot of really valuable information, thank you (again) Xin! The painting is even a bit blurry to the naked eye, it makes taking the photos more difficult because it looks like poor focus. I did take another photo and I tried cleaning it up.
I think it feels heavy because the clay is very dense. I’ve tried to photograph the inside of the foot rim too. I may have to invest in a decent camera and photography classes!
Nic
hi Giovanni,
i think the above photo is the other side of the jar. I’ll attach another photo here to try and show you the shape and the reverse side.
Maybe I will ask Santa Claus for a camera this year?!
Nic
Dear Nic,
it is not necessary to spend a lot of money, any camera is better than a phone.
Dear Xin, it is a really strange jar, isn't it? I can't place it with certainty. I see you too are seeing things that are typical for different periods, although almost for sure it should be placed within the 18th century. I even see some reminiscences of the Transitional period. But just reminiscences.
Giovanni
Is this another example of “master of the rock” style?
Yes, or better, trying to be, because I do not know if it applies to modern objects too.
Giovanni
I think both these could be more recent , possibly late C20th. The larger one on the right with the grey clay body is very typical of the jars you see in junk shops here in China , very poor quality decoration glaze faults and dull colours - I know these have been produced since a very long time ago, as domestic wares in small kilns, but this kind of thick footrim with a dirty grey colour looks quite recent to me.
The other one has a squared off footrim with no cut marks that I can see , suggesting a mechanical device was used , and the foot has some overglaze, or is slightly sugary, with embedded material, again suggesting a newer date. The colour of blue changes in different photos but seems like it's more inky than cobalty, and the style of decoration looks over- detailed for C18th jars.
Just my impressions
tam
Thanks for the better photos. I am having a few doubts about my initial assessment but having now spent ages looking at loads of ginger jars, I can't with certainty place it anywhere else than I first thought. So I am still in the 18th c camp.
The two things I feel are a bit jarring (excuse the pun!) are the way the glaze seems to sit over the jar rather like a coating of icing on a cake but that could just be from the photo. I was also struck by what I felt was an overly unbalanced white expanse between the painting and the neck - there is often a border around the unglazed bit so it looks quite bare. However, I have now realised that the blue line around the top is not a circle as I thought; the decoration doesn't wrap around the jar but is in 2 panels, is that correct?
Julia
Dear Nic,
it is not necessary to spend a lot of money, any camera is better than a phone.
Dear Xin, it is a really strange jar, isn't it? I can't place it with certainty. I see you too are seeing things that are typical for different periods, although almost for sure it should be placed within the 18th century. I even see some reminiscences of the Transitional period. But just reminiscences.
Giovanni
Yes Giovanni, the jar is strange. The painting has a lot of reminiscences of early Qing porcelains, especially style of Kangxi. But Kangxi style is not popular or not often copied at Qianlong period. From the picture you can't really sure about it.
www.wyssemaria-art.com
[email protected]
Hi Tam,
Thanks for contributing. I have looked at the foot through a loupe and you’re right, there aren’t any cut marks. The foot is very neatly done. But I cannot see any glaze or ‘sugary’ substance on the foot. The foot feels smooth to the touch all the way around. There is no embedded material - the black spots come off easily with a finger nail.
The more I look at it the more I notice how neatly done the potting and glazing is. It is very smart. I don’t know whether that is good or bad or what it suggests about the age.
Nic
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