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There are some very interesting lots in the auction which is held tomorrow. I might attend the sale myself. Lot 14 is estimated at DKK 1,000,000 - 1,500,000. It has a provenance and have been TL-tested by Kotalla labs. (I have a similar one with underglaze copper-red glaze decoration that is probably an antique or semi-antique copy from the late Qing or the early 20th century.)
https://bruun-rasmussen.dk/m/lots/DE351809D35E
I'm actuallý a little sceptic about their flask being of the Yuan dynasty. The last time we saw such a flask at auction it went for almost 6 million dollars.
And there is this 19th century vase that was on auction last year where it was bid up to 1 million kroner but never paid for.
https://bruun-rasmussen.dk/m/lots/1D8F46683771?auction_day_id=1005989
One of the lots have been withdrawn from the auction
https://bruun-rasmussen.dk/m/lots/91F0FC164A18
I wonder if they have withdrawn it to investigate if it's earlier than 19th century. A quite similar bowl was auctioned in Japan where it was dated to the Qianlong period. There is a bowl in the imperial collection with a very similar decoration of yancai enamels.
http://iaykauction.com/catalog/yka26_3001/mobile/index.html#p=86
The flask is beautiful. But in my opinion/eye the cobalt blue is not the one (Sumali blue) which used in Yuan dynasty.
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Dear Xin,
I went at the site of the auction and after looking at the flask I to was perplexed, but, most important, the item has been canceled!
Giovanni
I was at the viewing today to have a closer look and to get some more informations. And yes, the sale of the flask has been cancelled just before the auction started. I'm following the auction live right now.
Dear Forum members,
Let me draw your attention to the fact that lot 14 of the Rasmussen sale, the Yuan blue and white vase, is being discussed under two different Forum threads.
If a TL test has in fact confirmed its age as 14th century, then I believe that that must be the end of any further discussion based simply on connoisseurship.
There can be no further debate if science has indeed confirmed it to be of the Yuan period.
Regards,
Alan
The '19th century' vase sold for 720,000 kroner + buyers premium of 25 percent. A Chinese person was examining it very carefully when I was at the viewing.
https://bruun-rasmussen.dk/m/lots/1D8F46683771?auction_day_id=1005989&status=sold
This is the link to the previous listing, when it was bid up to 1 million but not paid for. The bidder must have lost his 50,000 kroner deposit.
https://bruun-rasmussen.dk/m/lots/FFE70C6C83AA?auction_day_id=1005594&status=sold
Now I can't access the listing of lot 14 at Bruun Rasmussen's site. But they had added a note that there were disagreements among experts and collectors if the TL-test could be relied on for the dating of the flask and therefore it was sold without a 'guarantee'. Something like that.
But the flask was on exhibition in London during the Asian Art Week where it won an award for best artwork with an auction house. Congratulations! And that means that the collectors know that it's there and that we'll probably hear more about it in the future.
https://www.apollo-magazine.com/the-asian-art-in-london-art-awards-2018-the-winners/
Where was the other thread with a discussion of lot 14? Was it in this forum or another one?
Dear Corey,
In connection with discussion of lot 14. It was in a thread that Giovanni and I were posting on, headed Date Prunus Vases, in the category Help Identify This.
I was about to post the ATG article link myself but you are ahead of me. What I cannot understand is, a TL test is not usually hesitant about the result it achieves. This is a little strange. Ralph Lexner, head of the department at Rasmussen, has stated that a TL test alone cannot be conclusive. Usually, such tests are, so I do not understand what is happening here.
It would appear that what is needed is a second, separate TL test, conducted by another independent laboratory.
Alan
The test was done by a lab in Germany that I had never heard of before.
https://www.kotalla.de/ueber-uns/team/?lang=en
I wonder why they decided on them, rather than having a test done at Oxford... especially when they had just been in London with the vase.
But that's Bruun-Rasmussen for you. ?
~ Decorative Arts, Antiques and Accessories, at Mollari's ~ www.mollaris.com
@ Alan. I had a very short conversation with Ralph Lexner during the viewing. He said they didn't know how old the flask is, that they couldn't be sure of its age, and now they simply tried to put it on sale like this to see what happens. I asked him why they haven't had it tested by Oxford and he said that Kotalla are better, that their equipment are newer. I said that Sotheby's and Christie's only accept Oxford but he said that they use Kotalla too and he advised me to use Kotalla for TL-testing of my own items. There was a television crew filming while we were there so it was all a little confusing and he was very busy. I don't know why they cancelled the sale but I could imagine that not enough potential buyer were willing to jeopardize at least the 150,000 kroner deposit required to bid on lot 14 given the conditions of the sale. The other lots required a 100,000 kroner deposit while lot 29 required a 250,000 kroner deposit. Hopefully they will have more research made on the flask.
Here is an example of a likely authentic copper red flask sold at auction in Macau for 72.6 million yuan. My favorite. It combines a rare shape with a rare relief decoration and an even rarer uniform copper red glaze. Monochrome porcelain of the Yuan/early Ming dynasty is in itself extremely rare. Seen in that perspective the price paid is not really eccentric at all.
Dear Corey,
Your research on this has been very informative, so thank you for doing it. You have the advantage of being able to go in to Bruun Rasmussen directly.
I was especially interested to hear that Ralph Lexner told you that Christies and Sotheby's are now also prepared to consult with Kottala as well as with Oxford Authentication. I still do not understand, however, why Bruun Rasmussen said to you that they were uncertain of the age of their item; as I posted in a previous thread, if a TL test is scientifically reliable, and if the testers are satisfied that their results have not been skewed by an attempted falsifying irradiation of the item under examination (something that they can now detect as having happened to an item if it has been inappropriately irradiated), then it would not be possible to declare, as Bruun Rasmussen did, that the item was fourteenth century in date. But declaring that is also not consistent with what you have personally been told by Ralph Lexner, that they did not know what its date was! In fact, it is contradictory: on the one hand, they say it's fourteenth century, then on the other, they say they don't know how old it is.
I'm quite puzzled by all of this, but thank you for your further enquiries about it. Given the curious confusion surrounding the item, it's hardly surprising that it had no bidders if they were being told different and contradictory things.
Best wishes,
Alan
Sorry, one of my sentences in that last post was not quite complete. I should have said: 'then it would not be possible to declare, as Bruun Rasmussen did, that the item was fourteenth century in date, but also not actually believe in that declaration; if properly conducted, the science should be irrefutable, and lead to a definitive opinion'.
Yes, I agree it's a rather strange story, especially with the test made and the asian art award won. Contradicting and very confusing. But that's basically what he said. I thought about sending them an email, but I think it's better to hold on even though I'm almost dying of curiosity...
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