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I got outbid on this very appealing jun brushwasher this morning by one of those damn sniper-bidders just two sconds before the auction ended.
I already regret that I didn't go higher than $600. There isn't really anything I can put my finger on that excludes it from actually being Northern Song made in the same kilns that produced the ru ware. There is an almost identical one in a major Chinese museum (imperial collection?) that can be seen on this site.
http://www.sohu.com/a/211058854_210889
And another one sold for almost one million dollar at Christie's.
Last year I purchased a jun 'rams censer' from the same dealer that he had dated to the 18th century and that has a glaze that matches perfectly with the example from Christie's (with a side-by-side comparison of the photographs you would know what I mean). If it should turn out to be of the Song dynasty and not a copy of the Qing dynasty it would be a world class piece. There are three censers of this kind in a major Chinese museum (NPM?). Some sites states that these are actually copies made in the Qing dynasty. The one I have is closest to the third one shown from top to below.
The one from ebay is a copy. I bought a very similar one as example. This kind of Jun ware is very easy to copy nowadays. It's very difficult to identify just from pictures. So be careful.
www.wyssemaria-art.com
[email protected]
I think now Corey, you're just having a joke with us maybe , but this seller does not sell any genuine Chinese antiques , and certainly the junyao bowl you missed by a bid is new , so you dodged a bullet there.
tam
Dear Tam,
I am with you. I believe that Corey is playing something not clear, or he is joking or he is trying to have consensus for trying to sell the bad for good.
It is not possible that someone think possible to buy very rare pieces from sellers who are only selling copies and are not declaring them as genuine, and on top of this on ebay. This is clear to anyone, so it is not worth to go further.
He did this many times, and NEVER submitted his million dollars pieces to the major auction houses.
Giovanni
Absolutely agree with the sentiment expressed here by Giovanni.
This seller located in USA is a high-powered seller with numerous years and vague descriptions.
Mark
Well - sorry that I didn't give myself time to explain myself yesterday. I was so annoyed over that sniper-bid yesterday morning that I immediately rushed to the library to get rid of my frustration. I know that the washer is most likely just a copy as stated in the description, but I had fallen in love with it and was hoping to get it for just a little more than the $100 opening bid. Due to som previosly experiences I had decided to put a much higher max bid in case others also thought the washer was interesting. The bidding went from just a little more than $100 to $600 just two seconds before the auction closed not leaving me a chance to react, so for a moment I thouht I had just missed a rare treasure. Had I got the winning bid at just $100-$200 I would probably had paid for it for the appreciation of the jun style and the charm of object even though I know that the chance I got an original one is minimal. Had I got the winning bid between $200 -$600 I would probably had posted it here to ask for assistance and probably asked for a cancellation if no doubt it's brand-new and the winning bid far exceeds the objects value. The seller has previously accepted my cancellations without asking any questions. I generally avoid jun pieces online since I know they can be copied two perfection. For example I bought a jun narcissus bowl from a Chinese ebayer as a study-piece for $100 and it's amazing how they have gotten everything right. When I look at it I almost have to keep reminding myself it's a copy because it's so well made. I bought a small jun-type meiping last year from an american ebayer that came from an estate sale which I suspected was an early Yuan/Ming example but turned out to be a 18/19th century example. Not a bad purchase at all. I purchased a small jun-type pear-shaped bottle from the other Japanese seller in Hiroshima, years ago, that he had described as Ming but also seems to be a 18/19th century and actually a really nice one. The rams censer I talked about was described as antique and appears very convincinly old when handling it. If it's a Qing copy it's good purchase. If it's just another modern repro then it's not such a good purchase. I had decided to buy one of the countless copies available for appreciation of the art and culture and when the one I have came for sale from this dealer I went for that one because it clearly stood out among all the others I had seen and chose to pay a few hundred dollars more than what the copies are normally available for. But the more I observe it and handle it the more exited I feel about it. I generally also avoid sancai ware because they are also copied to perfection but years ago I bought a sancai jar from this seller that was not statet to be old either that besides being correct in all it's aspects also passes the water absorption test. That one I would really like to have TL-tested. I got a white glazed jar from him that he had described age as 'unknown age', but that certainly also look like it could be an original qingbai jar of the Yuan/Ming-period but not a super-rare or valuable object as I first thought. That's it for now. I'm going to hang around the library for a few hours so I can look for updates.
@ imperialfinegems. What makes you say the seller is located in USA? It's gyro0702 you're talking about? I purchased a handfull of pieces from him that were all shipped from Japan. He is himself Japanese and his bank-connection is registered in Japan.
Sorry my error in the Sellers address. My apologies
Mark
That's perfectly all right mate. I'm just adding a link to another thread online where I showed the 18/19 century jun-type meiping I talked about. I try to restrict myself to show only images already floating on the the internet or that can be seen in the still active listings.
http://asianart.com/phpforum/index.php?method=detailAll&Id=105398
I also posted a photograph of the sancai meiping I mentioned in another thread on that forum. As you can see, it's very high quality of workmanship.
http://asianart.com/phpforum/index.php?method=detailAll&Id=87137
And I would also like to show Xin (and all the others of course) a nice archaistic gu-shaped vase that I purchased some years ago from the same Hiroshima based eBay seller who had the yaozhou style meiping. I totally regret that I sold it off but I actually bought it by a mistake because I thought it was something else, and it was before I had finally realized that a large portion of the items I bought from this seller were fakes. I also send pictures of that one to Bruun Rasmussen and they were interested in listing it but wanted me to bring it in for their final opinion and estimate. It could almost certainly have done better,
Compare with this dehua kiln gu-form archaistic vase at Christie's estimated at $6000-$8000 even though it's perhaps more impressive with its octogonal shape and larger size.
https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/art-china/dehua-archaistic-gu-form-vase-122/30820
I was because of a misunderstanding the man at Lauritz.com dated it to the 19/20 century and not 18/19th century. I complained about it but I couldn't make him correct it. He said that in their optic this would naturally indicate that the vase could possibly be very old. The eBay seller had dated it to the Ming dynasty. I thought about dehua kiln but since I wasn't certain I suggested describing it as 'blanc de chine', which he agreed in.
I bought quite a few pieces from the Hiroshima based seller (too many) before he stopped listing Chinese stuff for a couple of years, and so far I have written off 2/5 as recently made copies. 1/5 seems to be older copies, antique or semi-antique, and the remaining 2/5 seems to be authentic period pieces. There sure are some goodies among these, but there are probably also some of them that will cause further dissapointments.
Why does Corey continue to buy cheap fake items and hope they are worth MILLIONS?! That fake $600 Ming vase is not enough? I hope you don't pass along these fakes on ebay, Corey. I am afraid others might get in the same kind of false hope like yours and waste their money.
If these post are trying to devalue Corey as a collector or his items then it is very wrong and misguided. If it is trying to disrupt constructive dialogue in the forum then that's also wrong.
As it is, what seems like a joke is the kneejerk reaction from Clayandbrush to anything Corey shares. That prejudice is often based in misinterpreting and wrong info, as Mark demonstrates here too. The goading is unprofessional too. Surely, Corey will submit to the auction houses if and when appropriate and not when anybody says so. No one here has anything to prove, including Corey. That is not what it is about.
Corey's posts are a lot more professional that this. He is impeccable in his manners througout in the forum, his posts and commenst are not about others, but always about the art being shown. He also simply shares of his collection and his experiences, and he shows the basis of any judgements he makes. Also quite beautiful and inspiring posts, they pose good questions and make me go and look up more on this Art. These posts give a lot and the forum comments around it are always knowledgeable. They are really interesting but they are often disrupted with some negativity.
From the negative posts, i get nothing.
I really think addresing this is a job for the forum moderators, so we can all use the forum for sharing common interests instead of any personal comments.
BTW - Clayandbrush, you may be happy to know - you previously reccommended a book, it has arrived in the post from amazon recently, and it is indeed quite good,- lots of colour!. Thanks for that.
Huey- It is clear when you posted the photos it was unintentional and out of genuine interest, but then everything further and everyone else posting on the photos is also not right. If there were moderators they should have checked on it, It is not your job, nor coreys to fix that. It is a simple thing to fix if there were moderators here. It is also not my job, i'd really like to see the forum work well for the right purposes and for that it needs moderators, and good posts.
NX
And I would also like to show Xin (and all the others of course) a nice archaistic gu-shaped vase that I purchased some years ago from the same Hiroshima based eBay seller who had the yaozhou style meiping. I totally regret that I sold it off but I actually bought it by a mistake because I thought it was something else, and it was before I had finally realized that a large portion of the items I bought from this seller were fakes. I also send pictures of that one to Bruun Rasmussen and they were interested in listing it but wanted me to bring it in for their final opinion and estimate. It could almost certainly have done better,
Compare with this dehua kiln gu-form archaistic vase at Christie's estimated at $6000-$8000 even though it's perhaps more impressive with its octogonal shape and larger size.
https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/art-china/dehua-archaistic-gu-form-vase-122/30820
I was because of a misunderstanding the man at Lauritz.com dated it to the 19/20 century and not 18/19th century. I complained about it but I couldn't make him correct it. He said that in their optic this would naturally indicate that the vase could possibly be very old. The eBay seller had dated it to the Ming dynasty. I thought about dehua kiln but since I wasn't certain I suggested describing it as 'blanc de chine', which he agreed in.
I bought quite a few pieces from the Hiroshima based seller (too many) before he stopped listing Chinese stuff for a couple of years, and so far I have written off 2/5 as recently made copies. 1/5 seems to be older copies, antique or semi-antique, and the remaining 2/5 seems to be authentic period pieces. There sure are some goodies among these, but there are probably also some of them that will cause further dissapointments.
I think your white vase should be 19th/20th, even later. The shape and glaze are so perfect which you can not find on 18th century piece. Compare with the one on Christie's you can see differences. The thickness of the glaze on the Christie's dehua vase is different from top to bottom and on each side. That's because the production technic at that time is not so good like today. Just my opinion. It's better to do research first.
www.wyssemaria-art.com
[email protected]
I also posted a photograph of the sancai meiping I mentioned in another thread on that forum. As you can see, it's very high quality of workmanship.
http://asianart.com/phpforum/index.php?method=detailAll&Id=87137
Very nice late Tang Sancai jar (not meiping vase).
www.wyssemaria-art.com
[email protected]
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