I'm looking forward to see the results of these listings. I'm also thinking about offering some of my own pieces to Joanies to sell.

@william @avatar

It will be interesting to see if Peter includes these items in his video this week and what he thinks about them.

Take the qingbai melon shaped vase for example.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/354556212277?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=-ZKTigRhQYa&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=3MYm-mpoT3m&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

From the images it shows that to this vase has a stoneware body, and not a white porcelain body.

The Smithsonian has a Northern Song qingbai melon shaped vase in their collection and although there is not an image showing the base, the description clearly states that it has a hard, white porcelaneous body, which would be expected for genuine Song qingbai ware made in the Jingdezhen kilns.

https://asia.si.edu/object/F1907.289#object-content

Also, check out the unglazed body of the base of the 'Jizhou' bowl!!

Kind regards,

Jeremy 

I’m just curious about this. How would an auction house get so many fabulous pieces like this are fakes sprinkled in?

Hi all - 

This particular auction establishment has been mentioned several times on this forum, sometimes not in the most 'glowing terms'!! ...

As for the pieces been offered Song forms/glazes, in particular, continued to be used into the Yuan, where made in emulation of during in the Ming/Qing and then produced to decive from the very late Qing period ...

Images, as always, are subjective at best - one would need to see/handle these pieces to confirm the attributed dating attribution ...

Stuart 

I know this seller has sold authentic items in the past, but I would still screen each item individually. 

@ming1449 

Stuart is absolutely right in regards to handling these pieces to help in authenticating them because I am sure they are going to go for far more money than I would be willing to risk without seeing them in person or bringing in an expert.  This is such a large number of items that I wouldn’t be surprised at all if there were some fakes sprinkled though the lots.

Of all the ceramics I have collected over the decades, those  attributed to the Song/Jin dynasties are the ones that I am least certain about their authentic origins.  Most were bought in the late 1980s or early 1990s with no provenance at all.  If they are real, they were smuggled out of China during last part of the 20th century.  None cost more than 200-300 dollars and  I pinned my hopes on the fact that they “popular, everyday wares” of no particular interest to Chinese collectors of the Ming and Ching periods.  I also hoped that with the flood of early wares being dug up due to the massive industrialization of the country that there wasn’t much economic reason for the fakers to turn much attention to the things that interested me at the time.

One of the main reasons these EBay lots peaked my interest is that I am always on the lookout for “Song/Jin?” items that match up to any of my “Song/Jin?” pieces.  Most of the regular Forum members probably remember some of my past comments regarding my large oil spot storage jar.  At the time I bought it I had never seen or heard of that special glaze technique ever being used on anything other than tea bowls.  Joanies has a listing for another oil spot storage jar attributed to the Jin dynasty.  Also, they list a Cizhou bowl that is very similar to one in my collection. Attached are some comparison pictures.

@william 

I get what you are saying, to be totally honest yours look supremely better and are far more likely to be legit.  Your bottle is a great example, the form of yours is elegant, slender and potted really well, the glaze has depth and theirs is just clunky, night and day to me.

I glanced through their offerings and have serious doubts about 90% of them, almost all of the ones that come with an old receipts from that Dragon House in San Fran.  I will drop some pics at the bottom here that is like a google street view tour of that shop.... um either they were secretly scuttling out insane treasures of China or they were selling questionable things, this isn't 1920 in CT Loo's shop. 

That said, some of the Jun and Qingbai pieces look okay from the photos in the auction (which the contrast is clearly bumped up on in quite a few of those), and maybe some of the more generic things.Just like the walk through of that store, where a few things look fine, but are more commonly on the market, and then there's a Tang carved marble lion or two....

Just my thoughts, and to be honest I wouldn't be buying from them, just because of so many pieces throwing up red flags.

Jeremy

Here are some screen shots of the walk through of that store, seems I can't post the direct link..... you can google "Dragon House 455 Grant  street", and click their photos and see the walk-through if you want...  To be honest there are plenty of really great and wonderful things, just a ton of probable fakes.

@jbeer2121 that shop looks like a minefield.

I concur with John.... that looks like a great place for an eager novice to loose their shirt.

The explination of provenance given by Joanie's is completely suspect.

First, good provenance is specific.  Even if the family wishes to remain anonymous, it would only serve to achieve higher results by providing the specific sources of these items (gallery names, auction houses, famous collector).

Such great pre-Ming Chinese antiques, did not just get found in a flea market in 1950 - there was serious and established collectors dealing in these wares since the 19th c. (as opposed to Qing wares that were mostly overlooked at the time), and as such, there should be both photographic and documentary evidence.

I call B.S.

Okay guys, I guess I am going to play devils advocate here regarding those old store pictures.  
 
But first, I want to clarify my initial attraction to Joanies’ Song/Jin grouping of ceramics.  Of that large grouping of items, I only closely examined the detailed pictures of maybe five items that peaked my interest.  They were either things that matched items I own or were an object type I had handled at reputable dealers in the past.  For some of those five, the detailed pictures didn’t show me anything that alarmed me about them being faked.  The remainder usually had a single feature that stood out as out of the ordinary from my experience.  I have to state that I personally would not seriously pursue any of these EBay items without examining them in person (impossible, Canada!) or obtaining a trusted second opinion.  I paid no attention to stated provenance.

Now, about that store.  I have visited many types of stores over the decades in pursuit of Chinese ceramics including stores that look very similar to the one pictured.  These are typically located in tourist destinations such as San Francisco or New York.  These areas usually have significant Asian populations and it is not improbable that the owner is also Asian.  The owner is not really an antiques dealer and for many years has made a decent living selling decorative items to tourists.  Over time, an established business like this in an older neighborhood can attract local people looking to dispose of old Asian items.  There is also the possibility that the owner becomes a collector in his own right.  Occasionally, I would find something nice and antique in this type of shop which would give me the chance to strike up a conversation with owner regarding antique Chinese ceramics.  It is a way to communicate to the shop owner that I have some knowledge & passion regarding the subject (so much the better if the owner has the same love of the subject).  This is usually when the surprises come out from a drawer or out of the back room.  My point is this type ‘tourist’ shop has the potential to yield a treasure.

JHT has been mentioned on this forum numerous times in the past.

I have purchased from them including a number of items. Jade plaques (@12) and a Jin Weihong painting and other items. All of which I was happy with.

However, Tim @greeno107 raises a valid point on the area of Provence. Its meaningless to simply state a former wealthy family from China without giving specific details.

JHT does this with nearly every auction they list. Its a selling point. JHT are a high powered eBay seller.

I know that they regularly buy from mid tiers auction houses and resell them on eBay with said made up provenance etc etc.

Unless you know exactly what you are doing or buying I would tread very carefully with said seller as they often have listings full of fakes.

Mark

I looked through the results on this.  Seems to have been a successful sale.