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Can I ask you about an earlier comment you made , weiandmengjie?
Although you bought this vase as kangxi period, and now seem happy that it's guangxu era , why do you think it's worth more as a late C19th piece? Did the seller on ebay seriously undervalue his/her item?
tam
Dear Giovanni,
Sorry for the misunderstanding. What I meant was there are many many porcelains made in Guangxu period that tried ti imitate Kangxi period porcelains, from underglaze blue to famille verte. Although most of them could be identified easily, there do exist on the market some exceptionally good copies that are almost 90% similar to Kangxi wares. Check this plate below:
This plate was owned by one of the most famous collectors in China, Weidu Ma and his Guanfu Museum. Mr. Ma bought this plate as Kangxi plate in his early years of collecting, but later he realized it was Guangxu instead.
I didn't mean that you thought my vase was fake. I was just saying sometime it is very hard to differentiate Kangxi from Guangxu.
Dear Tam
First of all, to be honest, I still tend to believe this is a Kangxi vase, based on the decorations, shape of the vase and colors. This vase was first recommended by Peter back in April in one of his blog posts:
https://bidamount.com/rob-michiels-chinese-and-asian-art-auction-april-28-29
It was auctioned at Rob Michiels's auction as a Kangxi vase In April. It was later acquired by my seller on ebay, and listed again as a buy it now item as Kangxi vase. This seller welcomeallfriends was again recommended by Peter last week for a number of listings that ended this Sunday. So I believe this is a trustworthy seller.
Anyway, worst of worst, if Giovanni is right that the vase should be dated Guangxu period, a Guangxu yenyen vase like this condition can be easily resold for $7500+ in the place where I live. But if Rob Michiels is right, this vase can be resold for at least $15,000. I have nothing to lose. ?
Dear Weiandmengjie,
I understand now, your post is meant as a general information to whom doesn’t know that some excellent copies made under Guangxu exist.
I thought that you were addressing to me, that is the reason why I found strange you telling me something that I told you before?.
I agree, as said before, that your vase has been a good purchase even if it will be confirmed that it is Guangxu. I don’t think that the reasoning about the ebay seller is valid. If he is convinced that it is Kangxi, he will not list it with a “buy it now” option for half or less of the value. He will most probably bring it to Christie’s. It is very possible that he did that, and they told him that it is 19th century, hence he decided to list it on ebay.
In my opinion that big famille verte dish is much easily spotted as a later copy than your yenyen vase. Your vase is much better. Look at how is drawn down the tree. That alone say that it is not Kangxi. Plus other details that are typical of these copies. Again, your vase is much better.
Giovanni
Just stumbled across the same pattern plate in an old Lyon & Turnball auction here in the
UK from 9th May 2017... They say their example is Kangxi period (marked Lingzhi)
Dear Forum members,
I note that in his latest Youtube video review of the week on eBay, Peter Coombs praised this dish, disputed by some on this Forum, both for its quality and authenticity.
In accord with my two initial postings on it, it will be clear that I would have no difficulty whatsoever in agreeing with Peter in his view. None of the opinions against it that have been expressed thus far strike me as incontestable.
Regards,
Alan
Dear Alan, all,
each one of us is legitimate to have his own idea, of course.
As for myself, if I resume all the points that make me think that these plates are reproductions, I am even more convinced than before of my opinion:
- The figures are totally lacking Kangxi style, especially in the way the rope are drawn, heads, the naked non sense arm, the two minuscule chignons on the head of the boy, looking more ears of some animal than chignons, etc.
- The whole garden, the banks are not correct, nor in Kangxi style
- The fence is not drawn in traditional Chinese style
- There is a disproportion between those giant phoenixes and the figures
- The way of applying the shades of blue, although present, are far from those seen during Kangxi
- Unusual flower decoration on the rim
- Unusual dish shape
- Unusual flower decoration on the back rim. I think that I have never seen before
- Unusual way of drawing the lingzhi
- Unusually big diameter of the double circles. Normally they are smaller
- Unusual grit on the foot. Note: on all them.
- Unusual high number of the same type (at least eight) appearing on the market at the same time, all them (except one damage) in shining conditions, showing no wear.
- It is not uncommon to find Kangxi plates with the same motif, but there are difference between them in shades of color, etc etc. Here they all have the same blue, they seems to be produced at the same time, by the same hand.
- No one of them has the typical rim fritting that are so common during Kangxi
To my parameters of judging a piece, the odds are too many.
Giovanni
Dear Giovanni,
Notwithstanding your extensive list, I still remain unconvinced as to the unanswerability of your objections, but as you say, each of us is entitled to his/her opinion.
Regards,
Alan
I think what has been confirmed by many in the know, is that the dish was made in Kangxi times, but it is a copy of an earlier style (Wanli I believe)... the bowl is not trying to be Kangxi in design/style (its just Kangxi in period). - And 'yes' I would personally choose the above piece over the bowl. - All the best.
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