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Hey Everybody,
I thought I'd show you a real rarity I found last year...
As the title suggests it is a nice old bronze statue. It represents an amalgamation of a Shou Lao and a mongolian Shaman in the tradition of tibetan influenced Buddhism, which the mongolians favoured at the time.
About the Bronze:
The "White Old Man" wears a traditional mongolian headdress combined with chinese traditional clothing. He has braided hair and beard in the mongol style but carries the traditional insignia of Shou Lao, a dragon staff in his right and a peach in his left hand. On his back a magic bronze mirror with the depiction of two individuals presenting offerings to a ritual vessel, shows yet again the shamanistic influence.
Enjoy the pictures!
with Best Regards...
Carsten
Hi, I know nothing about bronzes, but it would be interesting to know who told you that this is a Yuan dynasty bronze.
Regards,
Giovanni
I had a lively discussion with Dr. Elverskog from Berkley SMU about the iconography of the bronze and also Dr. Luper from Bonham's agreed on the dating, after emailing several pictures of the object.
Regards,
Carsten
with Best Regards...
Carsten
Dear Carsten,
as I said I am not expert on bronzes, nevertheless I would be absolutley surprised if your statue is dating from the Yuan dynasty. I have never seen something similar and besides that the quality is not there IMO.
Who said that it is representing the "White old man"? That existence of such character is quite dubious.
The profile of the Professor from SMU that you mentioned is saying that he is a specialist on Oriental Religions. Is him specialist on bronzes too?
I do not know Bonhams' specialist but I have not found that he is a specialist on bronzes.
And for what I know, Shoulao is not known before Ming dynasty.
Regards,
Giovanni
Not all bronzes are of "quality" as you say. The quality is a result of the circumstances of production and depending on the artist, producing the object and certainly it's purpose.
The "White Old Man" is not a dubious character as you say. He is a personification of a star, worshipped in the shamanistic tradition of northern and central Asia. I have studied Cultural Anthropology and worked in the museum with the world's oldest shaman chlothing for over 10 years, reading and studying those myths and traditions.
As stated above Dr. Elverskog and I were discussing the iconography of the statue. He is not an expert on bronzes that much is true, hence my request to Dr. Luper, who is a very good expert on this field, especially Himalayan bronzes.
And you might imagine that the vast believe of ShouXing (or ShouLao) might have originated before it became popular in the Ming Dynasty?
Best regards,
Carsten
with Best Regards...
Carsten
Dera Carsten,
I wish for you that I am wrong.
I keep my high suspicion about this statue. Hope that somebody more knowledgeable could say something.
You could send the pictures to Sotheby’s or Christie’s, where probably you will get more authoritative opinions I think.
Regards
Giovanni
I share Giovanni's doubt on this bronze. It surely doesn't look like anything I have ever seen and the patina looks wrong. You have to be very careful even with experts from top auction houses. In more than one occasion I received completely different opinions from one to another. Based on the same photos, Christie's might say it is worthless while sothebys top specialist might be very interested and put a pre-inspection estimate of $30,000-60,000 .
For your consideration, some close ups with different lighting...
with Best Regards...
Carsten
Hi Detuned -
I know even less about bronzes but share the concerns expressed by Giovanni and springmeier regarding this piece ...
May I ask whether either of the two people you consulted, Dr Elverskog/Dr Luper, and cite forwarded any references, either in Museums or Institutes, for comparison ..?!
Stuart
Hi,
I can join the line of people not knowing much about bronze pieces. So that it looks old to me has not much value. All I want to say that I like this statue a lot. It's a cool statue with the white man standing on top of a python, I love it. I hope for you is has some real age.
Janneke
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