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Dear Jeremy, I do not see a bi disc base on that phosphatic glazed ewer in your link. It has a normal one, as I would like to see also on the one posted by 33kills.
Dear 33kills, very surprising to me that you bough that ewer from Edmund. That base is not convincing at all to me. Have you ever seen other examples with that base?
And continue highly skeptic with the other two pieces, especially because of the shapes, unless, as said, distorted by the conditions at which the pictures has been taken. It is important to know the size, too.
Where they have been TL tested?
Giovanni
@clayandbrush Artemis Testing Lab. The vase is about 12" Tall. The ewer is about 10" Tall including the lid. And I don't see an issue with the foot on the Phoenix. I have seen similar on pieces of the period. It might take me awhile to dig them up. Since this is a Post Your Favorite Items thread, maybe a separate post should be made for debating the items? Ive done everything possible to confirm authenticity including testing and others opinions and handling. Nothing else I can do at this point to convince anyone. There will always be opposite opinions on a piece regardless of testing, handling, provenance and etc.
Dear 33kills, it is always interesting to discuss the pieces, for matter of increasing our knowledge. I tis not my intention to prove that you have fake objects or not, it just matters of seeing our things in the right perspective and it seems to me that you agree on that.
I have never seen that perfectly flat base, with that neat cut, depressed disc in the central part, on a pot of that period. I would like to see an identical one, I have never seen in many years.
The qingbai ewer is to much rough for Song, it is not fine, not well finished. Out of proportion. Song ware always has an elegance that it is missed in your one, to me. Look at the lid alone, really roughly finished, that is not admissible for Song ware. Then potting in general is thick, heavy. Song ware potting is thin, and light.
As for the qingbai vase, in my view the shape is too “fat”. Pity that it is not possible to see the base. It would be good to see the looking of the combed motif.
May I ask where you have bought them and who submitted them to the TL test, the seller or yourself?
Regards,
Giovanni
@clayandbrush I sent them in myself. And I agree, always good to talk about things, bring up concerns and point out what's thought not to be correct or not correct. I dont take offense at anything, Im always learning and look forward to opinions either good or bad. I appreciate your input.
@33kills Thank you for the photos and more information. I'm far from an expert, but I do share Giovanni's concerns, particularly regarding the bi foot. Nevertheless, thank you for posting and a special thanks for taking the questions in very good spirit.
@craig Your welcome. And like I wrote. Ive done everything in my power, professional handling, professional opinions and TL testing. Not much more I can do to authenticate.
I thought that I had read somewhere about 'bi-disc' bases on Tang dynasty ceramics and checking through the Koh Antiques articles I see that it states in regards to Tang dynasty Yue wares,
'Early Tang vessels included ewers with the 6 faceted spout, plate and bowls with solid disc shape base, yu bi base (ie solid base with a hole at the centre) and some with wide and short footring'
Logically, I would assume that if this applied to Yue ware ewers then it seems to me that it may also have applied to brown glazed wares of the same period as well.
Kind regards,
Jeremy
Jeremy, yes I think you're right. Aside from Yue and Xing, Regina Krahl mentions a few other Tang kilns that used the bi foot:
Yue wares share many forms with Xing (e.g., conical and rounded bowls with bi-disc
foot, wine bottles); Hebei white and Henan green-splashed wares have a foreign cup shape in
common with the gold (fig. 40); Yue, Guangdong, Xing, Ding, and Gongxian wares made use of
the same distinctive foot in form of an ancient jade disc (bi), and so on (fig. 41).
Dear Jeremy,
of course bi disc bases exists. The problem is the way of execution, not the type per se.
BTW the picture is not clear, so probably better not to go further in lack of better images.
Giovanni
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