That's a really nice one, Michael. 

I had 2 plates of theirs but they were printed and nothing like as nice.  When I was selling them, it was hard to provide clear information about the company.  I also read that a lot of pieces were sold as blanks and decorated later by other people/companies.

I can't help with the dating but quality and craftsmanship are undeniable.  Just had to say.

@julia

Julia,

I have read about blanks being sold off and decorated elsewhere. There is a book about the company as far as I know published only in Japanese it is not very expensive but so far have not been able to find a seller who will ship to Australia. Even If I can't read it all would be nice to study the photo's. In my first post my estimate of date should read 1897 +/- 10.   

@brettm 

Hi Michael -

I know nothing about such wares but this looks to be a nicely painted piece of good quality ...

Stuart 

Hi Michael, 

A very nice vase you have bought. 

It's my opinion that your item is probably from the later period of the company. So about 1895. 

Your absolutely correct. The company closed down in 1897. The factory was completely destroyed by fire in 1905. 

I dont think your item was one of the so-called blanks. From my limited knowledge these blanks for the most part had incised markings. 

What's the title of the book you are trying to obtain?

Mark 

Hi Mark

Well there are two books one by Gisela Jahns called Meiji Ceramics I have located a copy of this one and have purchased it awaiting delivery. The other I only have the Japanese title 

 You are correct most of the later produced wares had an impressed mark or a red printed mark. Agree on date think my vase is just on the cusp of when they changed to transfer printing and decoration became very crowded. Although having said that think if my vase was from the earliest date of production the flowers would of been smaller in relation to the birds. It was very reasonable priced and obtained locally so postage was not an issue,  so i grabbed it as I have been developing an interest in Arita blue and white over the last couple of years. The price of Chinese 18th and 19thc blue and white has sadly out stripped my pocket.

Michael   

Quite a lovely vase. Congratulations, Michael.

The bird is intriguing. Not very typically drawn. The head looks almost like a raptor. While the long legs look like that of a large water bird. Then there is the tail....like a bird of paradise. Interesting!

Todd

Hey Michael,

Seeing as this is something you said you bought, I assume it’ll be sticking around in your collection for some time; so I’ll feel less guilty about a good old fashioned lengthy JRN writeup.
Hopefully a bit of a good long rambling will add some information for you to appreciate with this lovely piece!

I’ll break it up into two parts, and feel free to disregard either part/any/all if desired...

I have no problem at all pointing to this as an original early 1880s production of Seijisha.

The beautiful volume & depth of the underglaze, its perspective, and wave-patch/quilted bordering has me feel this is most certainly one of the earlier production pieces made by the firm under the direction of Tsuji Katsuzo.

The fact you said it was locally purchased also adds to this; shortly, I’ve seen several original Seijisha pieces coming out of Aus over time... although of course it’s possible it wound up there in more recent decades too.

The transferware sub-type of exported goods commonly associated with Seijisha I see touted on more major “collector” databases/blogs does it a disservice I find; as the group actually was at its inception destined to likely find itself amongst the finest producers of porcelain in all of Japan until its untimely early demise following another round of internal strife and the passing of Fukaumi (Suminosuke).

They were already well on their way to dominating the World Fair & Expo scene under their lineup, and had the benefit of current technology for manufacturing on their side along with a bit of more firmly rooted understanding of the international export scene.

It’s not too surprising when you consider components of the following:
They had the majority of the original Koransha founding lineup in their rank, having left the company after disagreement with the 8th generation Eizaemon Fukagawa over management/production policies when considering the future of the industry and the new technology to devote to it.

Speaking of technology, Tsuji and both Fukaumi brothers were amongst the handful of Gottfried Wagner’s earliest direct protégés he instructed; their own introduction to him predating their joining of Koransha by nearly a half decade in itself, first meeting with him during the summer of 1870.

Of course, Wagner’s introduction to them of his refined methods of implementing new methodologies of underglaze blues (no longer requiring sourcing from China), would become historic not only in Japanese Meiji porcelains - but additionally Fukagawa & Koransha’s specific usage of such.

Wagner was crucial to northern Kyushu’s early success in export; but it’s also important to remember he was not as successful everywhere else - namely, years later in Kyoto; so it speaks to how many things had to line up “just right” for this success to be enjoyed by the groups of the Saga/Arita area during the early Meiji Era.

The second son of the 8th generation: Chuji, who founded the namesake Fukagawa Seiji (as it exists today) in the 1890s, was actually a direct pupil of Miyagawa (Makuzu) Kozan; arguably the most famous ceramic artist in Meiji history - also renowned for his perfection of underglaze blue implementation.

Makuzu was a Teishitsu Gigei-in (Imperial Household Artist), but in a direct sense you can appreciate with your piece was the fact that Tsuji Katsuzo was also on the original shortlist of ceramic artists nominated for this prestigious Imperial position initially.

There’s a lot of interconnectivity for these characters of Japanese ceramic history, as many of them (somewhat in some capacity) worked either in a similar section of the industry, knew each other from World Fairs/Expos, had semi-connected ventures or collaborations, or related pursuits.

Connecting these historic figures is part of what makes this so neat in the aspect of Japanese ceramics often having a name you can tie to a certain piece and appreciate, but “pinpointing” the connection allows so much depth using the wares as a window into the industry those days as well!

Enjoy your beautiful piece my friend; I hope the above can supplement some additional insight and information to cherish alongside your art for the times to come.

Best,
-JRN

On the later transferred/printed patterns, later marks & designs being used under the Seijisha banner; and more:

My other belief which I have found varying supporting evidence of would be that, since the mid-19th century/end of the Edo period, there were blanks produced both in the old Hizen area kilns which later became absorbed by newer merchant classes and/or refitted for modern export working in multiple configurations/conglomerates for industry - as what records we do have tend to reflect sometimes confusing attribution or change in ownership during the timeline of the early first micro-recessions (or stagnant periods) of export occurring in regional pockets during the later 19th century.

This is additionally further complicated in the way they also enjoyed some overlap in outsourcing of production or finishing for many wares including the Hyochien Decorating Workshop in Tokyo, the Yamatoku kiln (often confused as Seijisha due to the engraved mark), Aoki Kyodai-Shokai, and several others just to name a few.

Of course, if a single kiln/workshoppe went out of business - they likely still had a surplus of blanks in circulation which would then be “rebranded” or simply sold by a different merchant/firm; or decorated at another location or shoppe.

There was a great deal of competition when Japan opened its ports per Perry’s request, and while the Meiji Era will forever be seen by many in the west as a time of “enlightenment” and liberation for the merchant/artisan class, a capitalistic wonderland of opportunity; the reality is many people suddenly were thrown out of a known system of stipend and support from local feudal commission to relatively uncertain futures/baring, forming alliances and trading groups which did not always transcend the test of time (or recording of such).

Keep in mind the surreality of so many successful and sprawling production/export enterprises sustaining themselves for even a few years during a time where a new model for the entire country was introduced following the demise of feudal way of life..

Honestly, it’s a miracle we’re even able to look back now and point to so many successful ventures - many of those lasting to today.

Even the original formation of Koransha, before being revamped after the majority of original members left, lasted less than half a decade.

Koransha was the “A-team” of ceramicists; all of them having lineages and kilns or acclaim for generations prior.

Having them working together was something like lightning in a bottle, the likes of which were never seen again.

For every organization like Koransha, there were 5 that didn’t hold a candle in terms of vision or quality.

Up until the later part of the Edo Period, the production of porcelain in general was so very rigidly controlled in the greater Saga area by the Nabeshima clan.

Actually only during the mid 19th century was porcelain given a bit of “leeway” in some ways via local domain sanctioning two merchants, Hisatomi Yojibei and Tashiro Monzaemon, to perform export trade with the Dutch and Chinese: even then, there was a lot of overlap in body styles/blanks & even enameling elements/finishing styles.

Of course, soon enough porcelain spread its production out from just Kyushu to span to Tokyo, Yokohama, and others; largely thanks to Wagner’s earlier days spent in Kyushu.

Wagner over some years would jump around Japan from project to project, institution to institution - changing entire industries with his insights and teachings.

During his appointment as Chief Director of Ceramic and Glass Department at the predecessor to Tokyo Institute of Technology (then Tokyo Shokkō Gakkō) in the early 1880s, he would teach a number of influential Japanese students - but also international students as well, including Chang Hao: who built the first coal kiln in Jingdezhen one year after the Xinhai Revolution.

Even after Meiji ascended to the throne and the ways of the Tokugawa Shogunate were abolished, northern Kyushu still maintained strong ties to the former overlord of Japan and the feudal system known for the centuries prior; this cumulating in the Saga Rebellion just one year before the original Koransha group was formed in 1875.

There’s a lot of nuance both historically and regionally that can get overlooked when we take a macro-view for the development of Japan after it opened its ports.

I think obviously, like most countries throughout history, we tend to stick with what we can retain; but the Meiji Era in itself was not a linear path to instant success and export galore.

In fact, there was no technical system of constitutional monarchy enacted until around 1890.

There were setbacks, systematic failures, difficulties adapting/sustaining, and issues which won’t always be the first thing we can address when viewing the unique “east meets west” nearly mystical nature of Meiji works of art and industry often reflected in our views today.

The Qing Dynasty of China is so absolutely mesmerizing in terms of what we’re able to cite/access today in modern times.

We have a large number of preserved and well known records left, standing the ultimate test: time - resulting from what may very well be the most robust and intricate system of documentation in world history as a whole.

Yet you’ll notice for every theory attached to historically supporting evidence, there’s still bound to be very systematic disagreement between experts within fields or niches: that’s just scholarship for you in general.

Japan doesn’t share the same benefit or accuracy of records keeping to that degree.

Unfortunately, I’ve come to accept the reality that records from the early and later Meiji era are well beyond exceedingly rare; so much so that we may never get closure on a large scale for many of these inquiries.

While I had always held out hope this wasn’t the case, it’s become even more apparent to me recently after corresponding in higher frequency with the few experts in Japan still alive/around at an institutional level who have devoted their area of focus to Japanese ceramic production/export including the time of Meiji.

Kyushu’s north-western corridor of Saga and Nagasaki prefectures as a whole during the 19th century remains (in my opinion) one of the most elusive and mystifying odes to export history we may never quite have all the answers for sadly.

Each time you keep collecting, researching, sharing & cherishing - you keep its history alive just a little bit longer; hopefully for somebody to one day pick up where we left off.

@jrn

Hello JRN,

Please don't apologize for the length of your answers I think everybody here appreciates the time you take. I have printed your reply and will make sure it stays with my vase. I was fascinated to read your views  on Gottfried Wagner in such a positive regard. Not so much here on Bidamount but on other forums and discussion groups that I participate on items often get dismissed because of the so called Wagner blue or chemical blue. It is interesting for you to mention that quality items from this period turn up in Australia, Australia was one of the richest countries in the world from the 1860's thru to the 1890's because of gold and wool exports so not so surprised at that. Much later in the 20thc all the major auction houses had offices in all our capital cities and held regular sales and sadly lots of treasure found it's way out of the country.

  It will take me a little while to read and absorb all you have written. Just wanted to say thank you.

Michael   

@watership

Hi Todd,

Yes the bird was part of the attraction for me, I like way he is keeping his beady eye on his partner on  down the ground. 

Michael

@brettm

Hey Michael,

Thanks for the beyond kind response; and apologies for my late one!

Busier than I wish sometimes these days, yet it always makes me so glad when I can contribute to something in the range of discussion: and even more so when it’s going to add some info for somebody to appreciate with their piece.

Something in Aus that may add some intrigue for you was their hosting of the Melbourne International Exposition in 1880/1881; from my understanding it drew many countries and merchants including those from Japan.

Of course there were several other ones during Meiji (especially as you had astutely noted during the period span of Australia’s great wealth), but that specific one was quite “grand” from what I’ve heard. 

On Wagner: I think amongst collectors he’s very much a “hot topic” - as you noted some people are rather dismissive of him; but it’s also important we keep “the grand scheme” of things in mind too... and this includes the way his time in Kyushu helped solidify Arita type exports back into the exposure and interest sphere as world-class.

As you’ll know through your own collecting and exposure to other boards, there’s a lot of strong opinions out there - and bound to always have some credible backing touted with them; so everything above I told you I’m sure somebody could contest with their own validity - but I find it’s also important to remove the rather “black and white” approach we take (good or bad, ect) to sourcing our opinions.

For instance, many people on those other boards I know tend to worship Bernard Leach - almost in a cultish way.

For Japanese pottery specifically: I actually to some degrees feel he was somewhat of a pseudo-intellectual, and arguably a charlatan in several regards.

He was praised by many as an authority of Japanese pottery, but many (including myself) feel he was not shown a comprehensive view of its depth; was actually exposed to a very limited amount of wares - and essentially had a glorified upper-class tourist’s experience around the country being shown a limited range: but didn’t stop him from lavishing in the acclaim. 

Yet, I can’t deny his very obvious brilliance both in outreach, impact, influence - and admittedly artistic ability (he had some really pretty creations). 

He undoubtedly IS the forefather of the British studio pottery movement; and largely responsible for gathering western interest in Japan’s ceramic history and aesthetic movements. 

His relationship with Shoji Hamada was influential; and Shoji Hamada himself was a crucial figure in the mingei folk art movement - and one of the most praised and revered potters in Japanese history; arguably world history.

So, if we look at things as black and white or dismiss the positives that occurred despite obvious differences of opinion on certain aspects of people; we tend to limit our own enjoyment and purpose of finding inspiration looking at these historic individuals and the pieces connected to their influence. 

Of course; as said above - that’s just my opinion, and somebody is equally valid in coming along and calling me a looney! 

What I will gladly share with you my friend, is a piece of the original Koransha group I own made under the guide of Tsuji by all indications - and hope we can both appreciate the underglaze method utilized in creating these beautiful wares we both own!
I think you have a lovely piece as said; and you should be proud of it.  

Best regards,

-JRN

@jrn

Thank you !

Michael