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If it is hand-painted, which it could well be, then it was probably a very nice buy.
Interesting that there are three of them; I wish RM had made it clear which vase was which, they could all be photos of just one of the pair.
Julia
Only 2 vases in the discussion yet , The first set of photo's were the sellers pics on Ebay that i bought , the second set of photo's are from RM auctions, the third set of photo's are my own pics of the piece i bought on Ebay after it arrived.
Hope that's as cleared things up..lol
Carl
Julia
Only 2 vases in the discussion yet , The first set of photo's were the sellers pics on Ebay that i bought , the second set of photo's are from RM auctions, the third set of photo's are my own pics of the piece i bought on Ebay after it arrived.
Hope that's as cleared things up..lol
Carl
Carl,
The gap's and Dot's and breaks in the tree twigs and branche's can you use them to compare them to the RM example to see if indeed they are identical. Even a transfer printed might not have the same defects, so it may be a way to ascertain they are one and the same as the RM.
Then it will be all about the mystery why they sold for £1,200 in the first place.
Short
There are a few tiny microscopic differences between mine and the RM example , slight different angles of branches but very very closely matching .
They could have been painted by the same person one after the other who was a master at this style and also a master of replicating detail . but i don't know .
Carl
Short
There are a few tiny microscopic differences between mine and the RM example , slight different angles of branches but very very closely matching .
They could have been painted by the same person one after the other who was a master at this style and also a master of replicating detail . but i don't know .
Carl
So these are definately not the same Hu from vase as the RM examples. I think the clue may be in the detail. If the differences are so slight it may well be we have a Master at work. All we have to do now is identify him. He could be the clue to solving this Mystery. The clue is in the detail.... 😉
Yeah , That's the challenge now , I will try and see if there any good resources on grisaille ware on the web.
Thanks mate
Carl
The problem with identifying a transferware item is that similarities AND differences can be used to ‘prove’ that it is (or isn’t!) transfer! So ‘gapping’ on one piece would suggest the transfer moved when it was applied, ‘gapping’ on more than one piece, in the same place on the exact same pattern can suggest that it is either part of the handpainted design OR that the gapping is part of the design on the copper plate from which the transfer was taken.
Both transfer printed and handpainted decoration will feel raised to the touch. Transferware will feel sharper, more ‘pointy’?
I’m going to stick my neck out and say, for the particular detail on the fir tree to be so exactly alike makes their being handpainted highly unusual. The whole point of handpainting is that each piece has its own character? What would be the point in making hanpainters paint by numbers? Transfer printed existed, was much quicker and cheaper, unless of course they wanted to make each piece look as ‘perfect’ as transfer printing? Although I can’t imagine why!
Fascinating item and a fascinating discussion!
Nic
The problem with identifying a transferware item is that similarities AND differences can be used to ‘prove’ that it is (or isn’t!) transfer! So ‘gapping’ on one piece would suggest the transfer moved when it was applied, ‘gapping’ on more than one piece, in the same place on the exact same pattern can suggest that it is either part of the handpainted design OR that the gapping is part of the design on the copper plate from which the transfer was taken.
Both transfer printed and handpainted decoration will feel raised to the touch. Transferware will feel sharper, more ‘pointy’?
I’m going to stick my neck out and say, for the particular detail on the fir tree to be so exactly alike makes their being handpainted highly unusual. The whole point of handpainting is that each piece has its own character? What would be the point in making hanpainters paint by numbers? Transfer printed existed, was much quicker and cheaper, unless of course they wanted to make each piece look as ‘perfect’ as transfer printing? Although I can’t imagine why!
Fascinating item and a fascinating discussion!
Nic
Good post Nic, The two comparative pictures. Those are the RM and the other is Carl's?
Even transfer prints, as you say have different defects, to find the same exact defects in the same area's on 2 different pieces is unlikely so if those pictures you posted are the RM and Carls with the same defect it does make it quite likely they are one and the same Vase.
What was the provenance of the RM vase.
It is not the exact same vase that's for sure , the RM piece had glaze fritting around the foot and mine does not , as i mentioned there is microscopic differences between the 2 from what i can see from the photo . I am struggling with this .
I tried to look through a loop at the grisaille decoration but nothing conclusive , there seems to be some evidence of hand painting but i cannot be sure .
Carl
Hi SD,
I think you may be right. Either they are the same vase or they are different but transfer printed.
Nic
I may have just solved the puzzle of both vases , the one being sold to me an honest sale and the RM one might be a little naughty !
I came across a set of 12 Franklin mint masterpieces of China modern vases with the exact same vase second row on the left. Of course the RM example might not be one of those but the decoration is exactly the same also and could possibly have had the foot dirtied and a collection sticker added to the base . Take a look at this link.
Carl
I may have just solved the puzzle of both vases , the one being sold to me an honest sale and the RM one might be a little naughty !
I came across a set of 12 Franklin mint masterpieces of China modern vases with the exact same vase second row on the left. Of course the RM example might not be one of those but the decoration is exactly the same also and could possibly have had the foot dirtied and a collection sticker added to the base . Take a look at this link.
Carl
12 replicas of Chinese historical vases.
Including Board (40.5 x 26.5 cm) with hangers.
100% original with authenticity sticker on the bottom of the vase (Japanese: made in Japan - 1980)
I think that settles it 🙂 Excellent work Carl.
Does that mean that transfer print defects can be found in the exact same place!! That is interesting fact to learn from this.
I suppose it depends which transfer printing technique was used i suppose.
Carl
Great detective work!
RM vase:
Franklin mint vase:
These are not the exact same vase, the handles are different. But it does support the transfer printed theory because they look of identical manufacture?
Nic
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