The Chinese and Asian Art Forum. For Fans, Collectors and Dealers.
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Thank you Nic, a very good definition. One of the first category is this seller kunst-antik-deko who sells imports in big amounts. They used to say „probably 19th century“ but have stopped doing that after some negative feedbacks. However they still put their items in the pre 1945 category. Not sure if the link works. You have to scroll down a bit for the porcelain items.
https://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html/?_saslop=1&_sasl=kunst-antik-deko
Birgit
An example from the above mentioned seller. Have you ever seen such an ugly copy of late Qing faces?
Birgit
Hi Birgit, yes this type of dealer is often less of a danger imo, it’s more clear-cut. Either because everything they have is ‘too good to be true’ or because they’re found out much sooner. Their raison d’être is deception so everything they have is a ‘red flag’.
@Vsherman88 Yes, they probably do know that they’re fake or misrepresented, but they don’t care. What they ask themselves when they’re out buying stock is ‘will this pass as the real thing’ or ‘will someone fall for this’ or ‘could this look like a genuine mistake if I get caught out’. But they’re also quite comfortable if the item IS genuine. They basically let the buyer decide. Having genuine items can also make look like it’s just a mistake on their behalf. So we might know that their motives are to deceive but others may give them the benefit of the doubt. This group may also build up a following of faithful customers who have purchased other, genuine, items off them so they’re less guarded.
Proving the fraudulent intentions of someone who sells a mixed bag of authentic and genuine is much harder that proving the fraudulent intentions of someone who sells only modern copies masquerading as genuine. That’s why I think this type of seller is more dangerous, their camouflage is much better!
Nic
Dear Nic,
in which category of seller would you place the selelr of this "Imperial!" dish?
Regards,
Giovanni
Probably the second category as he mixes old and new (if that means anything with only 3 items for sale). The only authentic piece in my opinion is the small, badly damaged bowl. The „Yongzheng“ dragon looks awful. Doesn’t keep people from bidding like crazy though.
Birgit
That Bowl is really awful!
Here’s a good question; why isn’t my kangxi goblet Glazed? I’m curios. Didn’t they always have a nice glaze or not?
As you ask at the head of this thread Vsherman88: “how to list on EBay without being deceptive?” Or in the case of dealers like Joanie, “How to list on eBay without *appearing* to be deceptive” or “How to list on eBay without arousing too much suspicion”.
I’ve heard of some dealers in enamel signs, watches, war medals and sovereigns doing the same. It takes a long time for them to be caught out because there are so many happy customers that got the real thing that their reputation remains intact. It’s only when enough people realise they’ve been sold a dud that people start to realise that it’s not an accident, not ‘an honest mistake’.
Of course, many people will never find out that what they’ve bought. The only way they’d know is if they asked in a forum like this or asked for an appraisal? If anyone did have a dud they wanted to offload they could list it on Catawiki? The appraisers there will put their name to anything. 😉
Nic
Dear Giovanni,
Apologies, I hadn’t responded in my reply earlier.
I think the last feedback that seller had should put someone on their guard?
Regards
Nic
Nic, what I actually meant was could I list them as 20th c. I know they’re not of the period as marked but I’m trying to date them. Peter looked at them but he never dated them.
Sorry, I was referring more to the title of your post rather than the content of it, it was a kind of ‘play on words’.
Nic
Dear Vsherman88,
who said that your goblet is not glazed? Of course it is glazed, why do you think that it is not?
If not glazed, the cobalt will not be of blue color.
Regards,
Giovanni
You can’t feel any glaze. I’m used to them with a shine. It feels flat, like sandy. Is that normal?
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Kangxi vases, Kangxi dishes and chargers, Kangxi ritual pieces, Kangxi scholar's objects, Qianlong famille rose, Qianlong enamels, Qianlong period paintings, Qianlong Emporer's court, Fine porcelain of the Yongzheng period. Chinese imperial art, Ming porcelain including Jiajing, Wanli, Xuande, Chenghua as well as Ming jades and bronzes.
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A free Asian art discussion board and Asian art message board for dealers and collectors of art and antiques from China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam and the rest of Asia. Linked to all of the BidAmount Asian art reference areas, with videos from plcombs Asian Art and Bidamount on YouTube. Sign up also for the weekly BidAmount newsletter and catalogs of active eBay listing of Chinese porcelain, bronze, jades, robes, and paintings.
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