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I was just watching Peter's video from Friday...enjoyed it very much, and he reviewd this vase which is about to end in about 3 hours on Ebay, but I think it needs to be given another close look.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/294982469567?hash=item44ae5347bf%3Ag%3AMR8AAOSw12Rifms8&LH_Auction=1
It's over $3,000 right now and will likely go well above this amount if genuine. However, I'm posting this message out of concern.
If you are a bidder, please look carefully at the faces and colors of the enamels as compared to known examples that have sold...side by side.
Take a look...
Genuine on the left....Joanie's on the right.
4 genuine ones (I couldn't find a match for this particular depiction of a woman), Joanie's on the top right.
To me, if you look at all the faces, they all have this very drunken up turned eye position. After reviewing all of the examples of vases I could find on Liveauctioneers.com that sold for above $2000, I did not find a single example with these type of eyes.
I also will note the enamels are off colored...just not the right shade of blue/turquoise, strange yellow,... close, but not close enough.
And finally, the red lines are just too uniform in thickness.
Yes, there is variation in the quality of rendering of Wu Shuang Pu wares, but they are HEAVILY COPIED given their value.
BE CAREFUL!
Tim
And, while I'm at it....
https://www.ebay.com/itm/354057990873?hash=item526f8032d9:g:b88AAOSwrFFifms5
I've not seen this type of decor on a square handled vase...these detailed village landscapes are usually rendered on more elegant vase forms. However, look at the rushed rendering and strange color pallete.
Genuine on the left, Joanie's on the right.
And, just in case you think I'm picking on Joanie's ...this vase, although damaged and very dirty, is a great piece and worth every penny it sells for! Click on the photos and open them up in seperate browsers, then zoom in....just look at the commorants swimming and diving!
FANTASTIC!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/294982469584?hash=item44ae5347d0:g:hYYAAOSwnIxifmtA
And sadly, my bid was not enough to outbid the current bidder. 😖
@greeno107 Whew! That's a lot of money. One wonders if we are at the top o' the market on some of these items.
Hi Tim,
I find this fascinating and I see your point about the differences. Could it just be a difference between higher and lower quality 19th c. deocration? Are the fakers that good that they would successfully fake mediocre 19th c. items? And how likely would Peter think it was genuine if it wasn't? I suppose the answer to the last question isn't really possible to find out, is it?
Regards,
Steve
P.S. I suppose the answer to my question: "would they successfully fake mediocre 19th c. items?" would be "They fake everything." 🙄
@steve Could it just be a difference between higher and lower quality 19th c. deocration?
Joanie's listed the vase as Daoguang...that should be when the quality was at its best. However, a difference in quailty would not explain the difference in enamel color, overly done shading, and strangely drunken looking eyes.
Landscape vases that I have seen are quite beautiful....really fine details, very carefully rendered and a good balance between open undecorated spaces and surrounding trees, water, buildings, etc.
To be perfectly frank, those vases, one of which sold for $5,100, and $3,350 are completely dissapointing in appearance. If genuine, they should have brought even higher results.
I understand Joanie's has a good return policy, so perhaps the buyers upon receiving their items will have a chance to physically inspect the details and reassess their decision to buy...or perhpas they'll see the quality that I fail to see.
@johnshoe I agree with Brian - Tongzhi period. I think it is safe to buy any small bowls, plates, cups and such, as they are reasonably priced, and I don't think fakers would take the time to work on such small pieces.
@johnshoe And...just for comparison, your sage and Joanie's sage...
So, John, while your bowl is later in the 19th c. and of lesser quality (just an observation, not a criticism) than the presumed Daoguang Joanie's vase, my eyes see that your sage is actually rendered more convincingly, with fine hair, appropriate facial and eye orientation, natural posture, and believable enamel colors.
Now, I would like to just take a second to talk about the fantastic vase that I did not win 😥 because my wife would kill me in my sleep for spending $1,825 for such a badly broken non mark & period vase.
The sale price for this vase is 100% reasonable...in fact, I'm tempted to divorce my wife and offer $2,000 to buy this vase.
Why? Glad you asked...
The deep ruby red ground with floral sprays throughout is truely amazing. It is indicative of late Qianlong and early Jiaqing work, which is probably correct for the period.
The brocade border around the mouth and plantain leaf pattern around the foot are extremely precise, and the gold gilt on the foo dog handles are elegant.
But the coup de grace is the cormorant fishing scene - I doubt you will find another vase that depicts such a culturally important fishing style with such a whimsical depiction.
These type of vases are never mark and period (to my knowledge), but this one is worthy in my opinion. Others must have thought so, too, given the sale price with such significant damage.
I actually did bid on that one with a view to restore it. A proper restoration would however cost plenty.
However, i bailed out at $1300.
Mark
But I did happen to pick up a late Meiji period pligue a jour bowl from a auction here in Australia.
Now I have two.
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