The Chinese and Asian Art Forum. For Fans, Collectors and Dealers.
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Asian Art is such a vast subject.
I am very interested to hear what advice anyone with some experience on the subject would give to those just starting out.
I myself have a good 10 years knowledge of English ceramics under my belt, but less than a year of Asian Art. The UK is a small place with a relatively short ceramics history... but with say just Chinese ceramics for example, I can see I am going to need many more lifetimes to get even close to mastering it.
May seem a little dark, but I would tell someone to be prepared for $10,000 or 10,000 hours before you can even begin to really have a handle on things. $10,000 could only be 10 pieces... or 1 piece. It takes handling a lot of pieces and seeing a lot of different examples of varying qualities before one should feel confident. That is the road to building a collection that you can retire off of.
THE BEST ADVICE - Go to auctions. They let you handle very expensive pieces, even pieces worth hundreds of thousands of dollars for free. This is the best tuition - free. Many auctions have regular events (with free drinks), like Asia Week, that are mostly free, and can be a great source of information. Get a library card. Travel - see collections. Begin to judge the stuff you see at auction with things that are shown at the Met, at the Minneapolis Institute, at the Freer...etc.
Many bidders at auction, online and in-person, compete over the easily recognized stars. There are some very valuable things that most collectors would pass right over - knowledge will find those for you.
Goodluck! (Dont give up!)
It is what it is!
Hi Lewis, I have been dealing for quite a few years, but not in oriental. Collectingasia has given you some very good advice, go to auctions, learn by handling things and see items being sold. My advice to you would be to be very careful and look out for bargains and only put big money into something unless you are 100% sure.
Dear Lewis,
wise words have already been said above. Seeing and touching things will really help you. I would like to add another advice: don't spend too much on Ebay if you're a beginner. Ebay is a good place to find small inexpensive Chinese export pieces which are nice to get an idea of how real Kangxi or Qianlong looks and feels. But there are also a lot of expensive fakes. Sometimes there are good deals to be made on Ebay, but to find them you need some experience.
If you want to start collecting in earnest and have a bit of money to spend I would advise you to look for a trustworthy dealer or a reliable auction house. I did in the beginning and the pieces I bought when I started collecting are still among the best pieces I own. Although not cheap when I bought them, they have already gathered in value.
Best regards,
Shinigami
Birgit
Excellent advice! - Sincere thanks to you all
I have spent quite a lot of time on the web studying, but not that much time in the field handling quality items. My next step is to definitely get out to the top auction viewings and shows, to start handling these pieces.
Hi Lewis,
I have been collecting Chinese antiques for 10 years, but still buy fakes sometimes in internet. My experience is that 1. In the beginning, do not buy expensive ones, buy those that you can afford, even they are proved to be fakes, you would not feel too much sad; 2. If you buy antiques from auction houses, only buy from the trustable auction galleries. I found I lot of auction houses in LiveAuctioneers sell fakes, they know what they sell. 3. Read the auction house description carefully, make sure ask for condition report. Sometimes you pay big money for repaired/restored/broken pieces. 4. For safety, before you buy, send photos to an expert, like Peter, for his opinion. Thanks and good luck.
charles
Cj
Lewis - I tend to do and say things very different than other people, So this is what I would do and am doing, but it's not for all
First I do not believe even for a moment that 99% of all porcelains are fake, like some want you to believe
China has been making and shipping porcelains out of their country for hundreds of years, millions and millions of pieces, one sunken boat alone had 60,000 pieces found and there have been many sunken boats
Chinese porcelains have been in many homes for years and years, in their attics, basements etc... and in many countries
Every yard sale, Estate sale, Swapmeet across this country has a chance to see a few
And now with ebay opening to every country and coming right into your homes, there are even much more pieces, yes more fakes and more real ones as well
And there has never been a better time than now to buy porcelains when everyone is thinking they are all fakes
Here is my advise... Go buy a few at yardsales, they are cheap and then consider them real, then start your study one piece at a time, looking for reign marks, color, style and learn all you can on this piece, let`s say it looks like a Kangxi piece because it has a kangxi mark, ok then look up kangxi other pieces and compare it closely, learn the color the pattern and the foot, keeping in mind that you are looking now for anything that could make it fake, you will learn so much this way and it will not cost you a lot for your education
Of course do also what others have mentioned, musuems, etc... youtube videos
I started learning one dynasty first the Tang dynasty and it`s color, then I went to the Song dynasty, I learned it`s style and the 5 major kilns, the colors and when I felt comfortable I then went and learned the Yuan dynasty style, colors etc, one dynasty at a time
Just like learning your ABC`s its a building block and necessary
I found a vase at an estate sale, I did not know what it was but it looked nice to me, I took it home and started looking online for vases that looked like it, soon I found the style was from the Yuan dynasty ok then I looked at all Yuan dynasty vases and found a few like this one, I noticed that most of the Yuan vases had the same kind of motiff near the bottom, I was on the right track
I was watching some porcelain videos and in the british museum they were showing a vase and I thought Wow that one looks like mine and they named it, it had a story painted on the vase, I looked up the story and found that was exactly what was on mine
Ok so now I got the dynasty, the style and now I wanted to learn about the color or cobalt or was it cobalt, so I looked at many and read all about Yuan cobalt and found what I needed, I learned about Heap and piling and how it would run, I learned how some dynasties would mix the imported cobalt to stop it from running etc...
So all a long I am looking for reasons to prove it fake, and learning as I go all from a cheap vase, and not just excepting others opinion as truth, Now as I go to swapmeets, yardsales etc... I will know a Yaun piece when I see it
That`s only one vase, it was so fun to learn this way for me and did not cost too much to learn
Now if I would have said well that vase is probably fake then I would not have bought it and I would have learned nothing
So learn one vase at a time and learn like an expert on that vase until you truly understand it - then move on
This is what I do, it`s not for everyone but it works for me perfectly because I will never take someone`s word that it is real - I will know
richard severson
Hi lewis I agree with severson when I by on eBay I look at what they are selling if all Chinese porcelains if peace I'm looking at 18th century peace by now are make offer with low price and his others pease high dollar I will not gamble but if he selling clothing and jewelry or yard sell idems he has one Ming mark vase if price low I will gamble on it and with 10year of English porcelain handling will help with Chinese porcelain they where high quality porcelain always buy what you like
How rare or how potentially valuable something is is irrelevant unless it is also something you really love and adore.
If you're buying things because they may be worth alot, but don't speak to your heart, you're not really a collector, but an investor. Back in the 90's many people bought Japanese art for their "Collections", all claiming to love Japanese art. When the economy there went downhill, the market for Japanese art also collapsed. Prices plummeted making it easy and cheap to buy great things (you still can). Instead of buying more, many/most ceased collecting altogether. Those folks were never real collectors, they were investors pretending to be collectors.
If you're a collector, a real collector, you buy with your heart and for appreciation. Collect things that make you smile, ponder and enjoy like a good family member.
Peter
Peter
I like what Peter Combs said, Collector`s are the ones writing the books on their pieces like Mr.Butler did, they love what they have and so they really study their pieces, JP Morgan and Mr. Freer were collectors and never sold their pieces but gave them to museums or made museums.
Yes like your piece or love your piece and learn all about them, my pieces are not for sale, at least not now but maybe one day
richard severson
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Topics and categories on The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art
Kangxi vases, Kangxi dishes and chargers, Kangxi ritual pieces, Kangxi scholar's objects, Qianlong famille rose, Qianlong enamels, Qianlong period paintings, Qianlong Emporer's court, Fine porcelain of the Yongzheng period. Chinese imperial art, Ming porcelain including Jiajing, Wanli, Xuande, Chenghua as well as Ming jades and bronzes.
The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art
A free Asian art discussion board and Asian art message board for dealers and collectors of art and antiques from China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam and the rest of Asia. Linked to all of the BidAmount Asian art reference areas, with videos from plcombs Asian Art and Bidamount on YouTube. Sign up also for the weekly BidAmount newsletter and catalogs of active eBay listing of Chinese porcelain, bronze, jades, robes, and paintings.
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