I think if you like them and they're cheap that's good enough reason to buy , but for me nothing stands out here ,

the decoration is less interesting than you can find elsewhere on the same kind of items - the jug , cup and plate are C18th export pieces, but the damage to the jug would rule it out even if cheap.

The lidded jar is perhaps C19th , but I can't see clearly , and is the least attractive of the four , in terms of painting and shape, but just my view. 

Agree with Tam, nothing special here. The lidded jar is a katmau, they were made for the south east Asia market in late 19th and early 20th century. From the painting style I would date this one to the 20th century. 

Hi both, the jug is £34, the Katmau is £60, the cup is £38 and the plate is £63, all have a Best Offer option. I thought these prices were quite reasonable?

My idea is to build a small collection of inexpensive genuine pieces so that I can study them ‘in the flesh’ and start to get a better ‘feel’ for them. Museums are great, but you cannot handle, look underneath/inside etc.

The element I have most trouble with is pricing, to me there is such a huge disparity in prices between pieces. I have noticed this especially with plates and teapots - anything from £50 to £1500. I dare say there are lots of reasons for this, but until I have more knowledge (am reading books etc) I feel more comfortable buying less expensive items, even if they’re not particularly special. In time, I hope to go for the really beautiful pieces.

Vases seem to be the most expensive, the 18th/19th century pieces are all over £500 and many of these have damage. Most of the ones I’ve taken a fancy to are £1500+!

anyway, thanks a lot for your advice, I’ll think about these and won’t rush into anything.

Nic

I think we have discussed this before , about buying cheaply to get a feel for genuine items - in my view this is not necessary. You could get four old pieces here for about £150 but then?....... it's a lot of money for just so-so quality: the plate here is a good size but the others would not display well, imo. 

You can handle the stuff in auction previews and antique shops /centres without buying. I have never been to a christies or sotheby's auction preview but they must let you handle the items (at least , I guess ?) and the pieces there will be genuine.

Many smaller auction houses will mix good and bad things so it's not so easy to tell , but the auction house in salisbury , uk (forgot the name) has regular asian art auctions where there are hundreds of porcelain items to check out. Some antique shops have lots of broken/damaged items which are real, but largely unsellable, but you can get your hands on them. 

I would only buy what you really like , even though that means having one items rather than 5 or ten.

Buy first off Peter's newsletter so you know it's genuine. Or choose a period/style and study that .  Some museums have great online catalogues where you can view the items side by side - the royal collection in the UK is mainly ming and qing porcelain and has great photos: you can compare lots of genuine pieces side by side and look for identifying patterns , colours, themes. Same for the V&A, british museum , met museum etc.

Other people have said that too, that it’s better to have 2 or 3 good pieces rather than 10 damaged. I do put in lots of bids on the newsletter items, but they usually climb quite high and it’s only afterwards you find out which we’re ‘good buys’ and which were so-so. I usually drop out when the price reaches £200-£300 because there’s no way of knowing if that’s a good price for the item or if it’s just gone crazy because it was in the newsletter. 

I guess it just takes time to get to know what to seriously go for, that some damaged pieces are still worth £500 and that other damaged pieces aren’t worth £50. I need to be more patient perhaps.

Thanks

Nic

Hi Nic, 

I also mostly avoid the newsletter items, since they tend to get overpriced. If you don’t know which price is still ok, I would recommend you to buy fixed price items from the sellers that are recommended on bidamount. If you like I can also recommend some trustworthy sellers to you. 

Birgit

Thanks, that would be great. I always check out the buy it now listings, but when you see teapots listed at £1000 buy it now and others going for £100-200 in eBay auctions  it does scare you off BIN. Of course, the BIN teapots are probably better items, but when you have no frame of reference because you’re a beginner it’s chancey!

So if you know of trusted online sellers I’d be very glad of the recommendations!

Thanks so much,

Nic

Hi Nic,

I can recommend these two sellers on Trocadero:

https://www.trocadero.com/stores/brianpage/catalog/

https://www.trocadero.com/stores/disini/catalog/

Recently I encountered some problems with the access to the Trocadero website, so if the links don't work go to trocadero.com (try repeatedly) and then look for members Brian Page and Edmund Grundner. Both offer authentic items in different price ranges and have very good descriptions and pictures. (No, I don't get money for recommending them but I have bought from both as a customer.)

Excellent, thank you! I haven’t been on Trocadero before, so it’ll be an adventure!

You’ve bern a great help!

Thanks

Nic

All apart from the lidded jar clearly, look European ceramic. I'm bound to be wrong though. They don't look at all oriental especially the plate. That looks dutch. I quite like the jar. Maybe 60 is a bit steep, I would prefer 30 but it would make a nice cotton wool holder for a bathroom. It has a good large "come grap me", type lid that is very fit for purpose.

I see what you mean! I wasn’t sure about the cup but the handle convinced me, ditto the handle on the jug and the way the glaze stops inside the rim convinced me it was ok.

the plate rim and the bamboo(?) painting on the back f the plate caused me to rule out  Delft.

I think the katmau is quite small, maybe it would hold one cotton ball! ? 

Nic

the four items are all chinese , no problem. Just not very good examples. 

Trocadero is interesting but can be expensive and there are some fake items and bad sellers (who try to deceive with dates and identity) . I like 'Galerie Hafner's' stock , and he/she sells at reasonable prices.

I have never bought from Trocadero because you are paying retail prices. 

Hello Nic:

I think these are pretty awful items to be quite frank. The damage to the jug alone should disqualify it. Even if it were undamaged the decoration is just awful and the same applies to the cup and the lidded bowl. The plate is bit better painted but has a very washed out appearance.

I would not recommend buying this type of thing. I once many years ago bought a lidded jar on eBay for a relatively low price. Now when I look at it I realize how awful it is.  I have it on a high ledge where I rarely see it, but when  I do see it I shudder. Some day I will donate it to the Salvation Army just to get it out of my sight. On the other hand, I have items I bought decades ago that still look wonderful and that I enjoy seeing every day. There is nothing like a well decorated item.

Furthermore, nowadays I won't buy anything that is not on bidamount.com. I think the auctions can give some surprising results. I have on occasion paid a bargain price for an item according to Peter, but more often I have overpaid somewhat. I also buy occasionally from the Buy It Now section. I think most of these items are somewhat overpriced, but I have made offers that are 25 per cent lower than the asking price and have had them accepted. I think most of the Buy it Now listers are reputable sellers. The chance of end up with a piece of junk is very low.

Regards,

Errol

Is it the combination of damage AND uninteresting decoration on the jug that makes it such a no-no? There’s so much damaged Chinese porcelain out there and much of it makes very good prices. Presumably a rare or very nicely decorated item with damage is more tolerable than an ordinary item with damage? 

I’d love to be able to only purchase from Bidamount but the nice pieces usually make very high prices. Also, many very lovely items are being sold from the USA and the postage and import duties to the Uk are absolutely extortionate. Even though antiques are exempt from import duties, UK customs ignore this and charge you anyway. They then tell you to fill out endless forms to challenge the charges which, of course, nobody does because you have to include a report from a recognised expert that ‘proves’ the item is antique. Such a report costs more money, so customs know very few people will bother.

so I’m restricted to buying from the UK and the EU. There are many great sellers but by the time you rule out US sellers, expensive sellers, disreputable sellers, damaged items, fakes, modern items, common items and items you don’t like there are very few items left to choose from.

Nic