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hi friends of the forum, I'm really curious of this group. I don't know too much of the two green vases. But I know the form is known. I have seen this form elsewhere. I think even seen this light green one's form in the palace museum too.
But, to my novice eye, I think both of the green's bottom marks are very abnormal?? so it went for such a high price. which leads me to think maybe the red ones are the ones driven price up? I know very little about these red wares. even though Peter did a video on it. I feel like I still can't tell what is what. haha. So any insights on why such high bids??
I should probably add that I didn't bid on this. But I was just surprised by it and wish to learn a bit more. Thanks!
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/102205731_chinese-teadust-cong-form-vase-two-others
What did they go for? I agree, the red ones are the more interesting/ attractive items.
Interesting!
@nyccat It is always interesting to me that these can look so contemporary, especially the ones with the stacked box design and then be so old, modern art, not so much, "nothing new under the sun." Sharon
@nyccat They all look new to me, except the white egg vase with the slight red glaze near the foot, which if genuine Kangxi would be worth a bit more than $3000. However, since the other pieces look quite new, it would be hard for me not to assume all are new.
I suspect the sales result is not legitimate.
@greeno107 What do you mean that the sales result is not legitimate? Do you mean the owner might have bid it up themselves?
@greeno107 ohh...something that I didn't realize when posting. seems like the description says "all 20th century" !!
so I actually watched this auction. It seems like they do have modern things. But estimate are very reasonable. And there are many passed lots too. A couple of this auction's items are on Peter's global member page. Not this lot specifically. But wow, so they said all "20th century" in the description.
why would the auction house bid up something that they wrote "all 20th century" on? confusing.
@nyccat The titles of most general auction houses are sometimes written to protect the auction house from returns. For example, by saying they are all 20th c., if a buyer thinks otherwise, perhaps that one piece is 19th c., and wins only to find out that all are new, then the buyer has no grounds to claim the description was inaccurate. On the other hand, if the description said these were 19th c., rest assured, a buyer would be asking for their money back.
Why do auction houses fake bids?
Well, there are a couple of possibilities.
Auction houses sometimes own the property they are selling, bought wrong (paid to much or bought fakes), and are hoping to create a history that shows the items have value. They often push an entirely unrealistic high sale amount. Then, when they relist the item in a future sale, they claim the item went unpaid, and the history gives the future bidders the perception that the items are worth bidding on (when in fact they are worthless). Even if the item sells for half on the 2nd auction, it might be enough (and often is) for the auction house to make their money back. The second buyer is left thinking they got great pieces for half price, but what they got is screwed.
Another possibility is the auction house knows they have a left bid. On LIVEAUCTIONEERS, if only one person leaves a left bid, the system shows you the high bid amount. So, the auction house bids to make sure that buyer pays the highest amount of their left bid.
There are more reasons, all of them quite dishonest. I am a huge skeptic of bidding online.
@johnshoe Read the reply I left for Ang P. There is nothing in this lot to explain the sale amount. The only legitimate possibility is that an uneducated buyer dropped $3,000+ on a lot of new porcelains. Statistically, I think the odds are in favor of some type of manipulation.
Again, perhaps the egg vase is genuine, but one would definitely need to handle it to be sure, and I'm not sure I've seen anything with a glaze that is all white with just a splash of red.
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Kangxi vases, Kangxi dishes and chargers, Kangxi ritual pieces, Kangxi scholar's objects, Qianlong famille rose, Qianlong enamels, Qianlong period paintings, Qianlong Emporer's court, Fine porcelain of the Yongzheng period. Chinese imperial art, Ming porcelain including Jiajing, Wanli, Xuande, Chenghua as well as Ming jades and bronzes.
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The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art
A free Asian art discussion board and Asian art message board for dealers and collectors of art and antiques from China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam and the rest of Asia. Linked to all of the BidAmount Asian art reference areas, with videos from plcombs Asian Art and Bidamount on YouTube. Sign up also for the weekly BidAmount newsletter and catalogs of active eBay listing of Chinese porcelain, bronze, jades, robes, and paintings.
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