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Dear Forum members:
I started a thread on the forum recently about shill bidding. That in turn led to a discussion of "sniping" and other peculiar eBay phenomena. This evening Chamberlain's Antiques (juice 1499 on eBay) held an eBay auction with some lovely items. I was somewhat interested in a large vase dating from about 1960 according to Josh Chamberlain, who I often buy from and who is a very nice and honest dealer, in my opinion. Josh told that he thought the vase would bring a price in the $800-1,200 (USD) price range. SEE LINK. I decided not to bid on the vase. I almost always restrict myself to items no later than the Republican period. However, I watched the bidding with interest. You can see that the bidding was at about $600 until the last 20 seconds of the auction when it suddenly jumped with 3-4 bids to $3,750. SEE LINK I think $3750 is a staggeringly high price for a 1960's vase even with decent decoration, good condition and large size. The buyer has a 100% rating on eBay with about 22 prior purchases. I'd be interested to know what Forum members make of this unusual price. I wonder whether the buyer won't get buyer's remorse and we will then later see the vase back on eBay!
Parenthetically, has anyone ever seen a vase foot decorated with a dragon in this manner? It is so discordant and ugly compared with the rest of the vase that it rather spoils it even though one rarely looks at the feet of vases when they are out on display.
Best regards,
Errol
Wow high price for a 1960s.
Would not be that surprised to see it back on the market. Buyer was for some reason very keen on buying it. It is decorative and all but very busy looking.
If josh thought x amount then it would be so. He dies know his prices. He also does get good to high prices because of who he is. Buyers have comfort in buying from him with confidence.
Over the last 7 or so years I have left hundreds of bids and today was the first time something slipped thru the net.
Mark
Mark:
I wonder whether the secret to this vase and its unusually high price lies in the calligraphy? I wonder whether any Forum member could translate it for us?
I agree totally with you that one can have absolute confidence in Josh. One knows with 100% certainty that there won't be any shill bidding or other irregularities involving his auctions and that dating is mostly correct although no one can be an expert in every speciality of Chinese art.
Regards,
Errol
Had another look at said. I suspect that the calligraphy and or maker could be a well known contemporary artist. Hence the price.
Have to wait until Xin, tam, Alan or George weigh in with their impression.
Needless to say life is one long learning experience.
That said not everyone knows everything. Not sure if Chamberlain antiques have a linguistic person on board
Mark
I think two bidders just chased up the price , and maybe got carried away.
the price is surprising but not outrageous given that good quality porcelain was and is being produced in Jingdezhen, even through the 1960s and 1970s, in studios and workshops .
I could be wrong but this does not look like an individual artist's piece, more like a well-decorated generic piece, and a good display size, with an interesting scene.
The calligraphy , to me , does not have an individual's style or flair, but again I might be wrong, and I can only read two characters 'jiangnan' which means south of the Yangtse river.
Well-known contemporary artists on porcelain command very high prices, and $3700 would probably be very reasonable if it was by a known and collected artist.
The base has a qianlong mark , and I think some small qianlong porcelain pieces (and maybe C19th ones) such as water pots sometimes have dragons on the base (peter has examples of bird feeders with these on his videos) , but usually in underglaze blue and not these lurid colours , so the decorator is referencing those , I think.
I think also some buyers are looking for the next investment opportunity , and because republican wares have increased so much in value in recent years, some people may be gambling on 'vintage ' 1960s stuff.
tam
If the inscription is true, the vase is dated bing yin, 1026.
But in my opinion it is later. Some of these late vases reach very high prices, much higher than this one, but they are also of much better quality.
I suppose that what happened here is a case of not really knowledgeable buyer.
Giovanni
Josh Chamberlain was as amazed as the rest of us regarding this high price. However, the vase has been paid for and is going out today. So this was a genuine buyer. I think Tam is correct that with good-quality Chinese porcelains including those of the Republican period going up so much in price and value collectors are looking for so-called vintage items. However, I still think $3,750 was high for this vase. The decoration is good, but it is extremely "busy" and "lurid" is a good way to describe the foot. The more I looked at the vase the less I liked it even as a purely decorative item. The foot evokes the cheap reproductions I used to see in stores in Chinatown in San Francisco or that I still see in Chinese restaurants as items used for decoration and to create a Chinese ambience.
Errol
"Green begins covering the hills of JiangNan, Sailboats traveling from distant ports arrive, Written Mid-Summer BingYin (1926 or 1986) at ChuShan (Pearl Hill)"
Hello GF:
Thanks so much for the translation of the calligraphy. Pardon my ignorance but why does BingYin signify either 1926 or 1986? Also do you think this is just a poetic description of the decoration on the vase? Also, do you think the calligraphy casts any further light on when the vase was produced?
Regards,
Errol
Dear Errol,
An answer to just one of your various questions: the vase is cyclically dated. On this dating system, in which a cycle has a span of 60 years, best read up on it yourself. There are a number of online explanations that are reliable that you can consult.
Alan
Errol,
Yes, the poem is a nice description of the scene. Chinese cyclical dates repeat every 60 years. The caligraphy is a bit rough and it is also possible that the date was not the true date of production, but the earlier date does not fit the style of the decoration. I did not see an artist signature but it may be hidden in the red seal which I could not read.
George
Dear George and Alan:
Thanks so much! I learn something new on the Forum every day thanks to members with expertise such as you both have in abundance. I will, I promise, do my homework and try to understand the cyclical dating system. I love George's translation. Even though I don't care much for the vase, the poetic description is quite lovely!
Kind regards,
Errol
Dear Erroll,
I said in my previous post: "If the inscription is true, the vase is dated bing yin, 1026."
What I meant is that the previous possible cyclical date, 1866, is impossible and I think that perhaps 1986 is too late.
But with the "If" I was suggesting that the inscription is probably not true, because 1926 seems too early for that painting style.
Although I am not expert on these later ware, I think that it should be datet at about 1960 - 1970.
But it could well be 1986, as said I am not expert there and frankly I think that it is difficult to be more precise on these objects.
Giovanni
Errol,
A handy chart to use for cyclical dating:
http://www.gotheborg.com/marks/dates_page.shtml
George
Hello George:
Many thanks!
Errol
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