The Chinese and Asian Art Forum. For Fans, Collectors and Dealers.
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as i just mentioned in one ID help page, i doubt whether i should go on to speak and comment here...
Like the Chinese antique market, the overseas market is also swarmed with fakes and low-fakes.
I remember Eskenazi the london based dealer once said, he always went to museums to study and this went on for very long time.
Why don't these fake buyers go to the grand museums to study for some months and buy decent books and come back to buy cautiously?
Well, i realize that some people are buying antiques or so-called antiques just for fun, and they refuse to carry out serious study.
Solution: find a reliable expert to seek professional advice or try hard to spend time and energy to have good study.
Even buying in most famous auctions houses could lead you to blindness and even trouble if you do not have the EYE for ancient art.
Just personal opinion, and welcome your thoughts!
People learn in a variety of ways. Some are willing to take more risks, others are more conservative. There are many approaches to collecting and each person chooses their own path. On this forum all levels of collectors are welcomed from the more experienced like yourself to to brand new collectors. Perhaps you are taking things a bit too seriously at the moment. I think the best approach is to share knowledge and help others when it makes sense to and don't expect the rest of the world should already know what you do or should go about things in the same way you have chosen to. In this way you won't waste your energy judging others too much and you can instead help more by focusing on sharing and teaching, which is very important and greatly appreciated by those like myself who want to learn. Cheers! John
my words echoed my teacher- master”s. there are no various ways to learn. there is only perhpas one way to learn. when time and energy and money are exhausted，people suddenly wake up... i knew a medical professor here in my City who has been buying for more than 20 years. he spent at least a million rmb on buying.
every time he came to for inquiry，most of the answers are： fake.
u know why？
he chose the wrong sellers.
tragedy is， he has enough money to go on en joying like this. he is in his late 70s.
i have chosen in mind to criticise my master- teacher that he is too serious.
But i think he is right now.
Like i said, only
Time will tell.
By the way, authentication is so simple, either right or wrong, unlike quantum mechanics, there is no "might" wrong.
@jiawei-he that's the thing about some teachers - they think their way is the most valid way when obviously the reality is there are many paths up the mountain. I have learned that these forums seem to work best for people who keep an open mind and don't get overly attached to their opinions. Otherwise it can turn into mental torture trying to prove to everybody you are right and they are wrong. The sustainable approach is to offer your opinions then let it go. Those who can do that tend to stick around here, those who can't come and go more quickly. Either way is fine - which way it goes just depends on each person's interest, needs, and motive.
dear friend john
we are talking about different matters.
for now let us pause in philosophical discussion.
let me answer u here ur question about southern guan：
it is common sense that laohudong wares have blackish paste. find a abc book and read. cheers
quote data-userid="7601" data-postid="85034"]
@jiawei-he that's the thing about some teachers - they think their way is the most valid way when obviously the reality is there are many paths up the mountain. I have learned that these forums seem to work best for people who keep an open mind and don't get overly attached to their opinions. Otherwise it can turn into mental torture trying to prove to everybody you are right and they are wrong. The sustainable approach is to offer your opinions then let it go. Those who can do that tend to stick around here, those who can't come and go more quickly. Either way is fine - which way it goes just depends on each person's interest, needs, and motive.
When buying Chinese porcelain and ceramics (or any antiques for that matter), you base your buys on what you know, and hope you get it right.
I find that posting anything in this forum or any other venue is a bit like Schrödinger's cat, until you actually hit "post" and get replies, the "box" is unopened and you don't know if the cat is alive or dead, because even if you think you know something, sometimes you make mistakes, because there might be one or two other aspects you have overlooked. So sometimes, it is just easier not to post something, because then you can keep living in your "fantasy world" and think your item is great (like that guy on youtube), the problem with that of course is that you don't really learn anything, and if you don't learn from your mistakes, you will keep repeating them.
I guess my point is, that an item is either fake or authentic, but "human error" or "plain old belief" can make authentic items "fake", and fake items "authentic". I hope there will someday be a non-destructive scientific method that can clear it up with certainty, but that is probably just wishful thinking. 🙂
~ Decorative Arts, Antiques and Accessories, at Mollari's ~ www.mollaris.com
thank u，micheal！ i like ur comment and ur example of quantum mechanics cat. Yes, for common collectorS there is a path To success.
tl Test is truasted. But i heard tl test is not always correct. I am no physics person. But it has To do with their database?
thank u，micheal！ i like ur comment and ur example of quantum mechanics cat. Yes, for common collectorS there is a path To success.
tl Test is truasted. But i heard tl test is not always correct. I am no physics person. But it has To do with their database?
I guess it is kinda trusted, but it is unfortunately destructive. Also, it can be deceived into giving wrong dates if a fake has been built on an original authentic base excavated from a kiln site, or authentic shards have been built into the fake or similar fakery. There is also rumours that irradiated ceramics can mess up the dating and make new seem old, but I admit, I'm not fully versed in the science behind that.
~ Decorative Arts, Antiques and Accessories, at Mollari's ~ www.mollaris.com
I visited Oxford TL Lab some years ago, and I ve read report about Hongkong TL lab's way of operation.
It is so far important for business transaction.
Some Ru items are fully glazed, and so TL drilling holes can be disaster.
Restoration, like you said, is another issue.
thank u，micheal！ i like ur comment and ur example of quantum mechanics cat. Yes, for common collectorS there is a path To success.
tl Test is truasted. But i heard tl test is not always correct. I am no physics person. But it has To do with their database?
I guess it is kinda trusted, but it is unfortunately destructive. Also, it can be deceived into giving wrong dates if a fake has been built on an original authentic base excavated from a kiln site, or authentic shards have been built into the fake or similar fakery. There is also rumours that irradiated ceramics can mess up the dating and make new seem old, but I admit, I'm not fully versed in the science behind that.
In major auction results, nearly 80 %of Jizhou wares are restored.
Completed unbroken and unrestored Jizhou pieces are very rare.
I visited Oxford TL Lab some years ago, and I ve read report about Hongkong TL lab's way of operation.
It is so far important for business transaction.
Some Ru items are fully glazed, and so TL drilling holes can be disaster.
Restoration, like you said, is another issue.
thank u，micheal！ i like ur comment and ur example of quantum mechanics cat. Yes, for common collectorS there is a path To success.
tl Test is truasted. But i heard tl test is not always correct. I am no physics person. But it has To do with their database?
I guess it is kinda trusted, but it is unfortunately destructive. Also, it can be deceived into giving wrong dates if a fake has been built on an original authentic base excavated from a kiln site, or authentic shards have been built into the fake or similar fakery. There is also rumours that irradiated ceramics can mess up the dating and make new seem old, but I admit, I'm not fully versed in the science behind that.
@jiawei-he Would you say jizhou wares more prone to breaking than other Song types? And if so, what is the reason?
john，did you have anyjizhou？
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