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I didn't see a post on this so I thought I would share it in case others hadn't seen it.
Cheers,
Jeremy
Thank you very much for posting this! Yes, it has been speculated by some that said washer is actually Chinese Ru ware and not Korean. In fact I posted a Chinese article here where it is speculated that a number of Korean celadon pieces in museums are actually Chinese Ru ware. That washer was on the list and I am thrilled and delighted to see that the washer has now been confirmed to be Chinese Ru ware. However it is not specified in the article if the washer is Qingliangsi or from one of the other Ru kilns.
This is the third Ru piece that was first thought to be Korean but then proven to Chine Ru ware in recent years. First was a cup holder sold at Guardian. Second was the lost washer recently rediscovered i Dresden. And this one is number three.
I also have a piece (a bowl) that was bought as Korean but that I belive is likely Chinese Ru ware. Zhanggongxiang kiln and not Qingliangsi temple though. I posted some pictures of it here but ther were zero qualified response.
I also have a possibly authentic Ru washer in transit. I don't expect it to be. That one is broken however - entire rim part missing. Only the base and some of the sides left. If it should turn out to be authentic I might have it cut down and add a metal-ring to the rim.
I actually have two possibly authentic Qingliangsi Ru pieces in my private collection. One is likely the real deal - the holy grail of Chinese ceramics (to me). Regina Krahl will be the one to contact for authentication/correct identification - it might just be plain Guan ware. She also works for Sotheby's.
And the I posted a couple of possibly authentic Ru pieces here for the fun of it and of course there were absolute zero response.
See if I can repost the link to the Chinese article another day.
Here's the link to the washer at British Museum. They have already changed the desription to Chinese Ru ware and the kiln is identified as Qingliangsi - the rarest and most valuable one. And it has a heirloom status since it was collected by Sir Percival David. This is pretty big.
https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/A_PDF-59
How can you possibly expect anyone on the forum to intelligently respond to a fellow forum member’s possible ownership of an example of Ru ware? We have at best seen an example in a museum or read some articles on the subject. We have never handled or owned an example of Ru ware. They have been copied for centuries so anything we have might have seen in years of collecting has a million to one chance of being genuine.
All I can say is take it to the British Museum.
As one who loves to bluster over pieces I've owned, it's fun, but in the end, if you dangle a carrot too long without ever giving the mule a taste, you just piss off the mule.
@avatar Share some good photos of the piece! We'd all appreciate seeing an undiscovered Ru ware piece, or a Qianlong celdon vase, but expect scrutiny - it's part of the process and the audience of folks here have an extensive combined knowledge and I think everyone here contributes with constructive advice and opinions... perhaps not 100% correct, but certainly not with intentions to defame anyone or any piece without just cause.
You can't honestly think that if you have a genuine Ru ware piece that posting a few photos would somehow damage the reputation of the piece, or its chances of being sold at a future time.... I think most collectors would cut off their own arm to own such a prize!
Worst case scenario - If we don't share your feelings about the age, you can always prove us wrong by having it sell at the next Sotheby's auction for $30 million USD or so.
For the record, my last 3 'DingYao' purchases have all turned up Qing dynasty period, so I most certainly have not acquired the technical skills to identify Song dynasty wares. But, had I not reached out and shared photos of what I had purchased with more knowledgable folks, I'd just be sitting around counting my imaginary $$$ that I'd get from the imaginary sale of my 'not quite' Song dynasty pieces.
Let's see what you got!
No. No, sorry. No pictures. Like I said: Ru ware OR Guan ware. NOT a fake.
@avatar I understand your reluctance to show images.
Even sending pictures to auction houses is almost always a waste of time.
All I can suggest is that you take it to a Museum such as the N?Y Met or perhaps join an organisation such as the OCS in London.
Vic
My Late Yuan-Ming Guan ware Vase detail with stained crackle.
Creamy coloured paste where chipped,not grey.
Thanks for your advice. I already said that I would contact Regina Krahl about it. (if I don't decide to keep it for myself) She's the best. I think she was taking over for Jessica Rawson at British Museum but apparently she has left. My piece has the same blue glaze with the flaked ice crackle as the one that sold for $38m. It was just befor that one came on that I acquired it so it was a real thrill to see that it went that high.
@avatar I understand your reluctance to show images.
Even sending pictures to auction houses is almost always a waste of time.
Your statement could be interpreted to mean you think posting here in the Forum is a complete waste of time. Interesting that you should feel that way since I've seen very constructive criticism given to you specifically.
Okay...so you think there is some sort of risk for showing your piece here in the Forum. Then, why mention your 'ru' piece at all if you don't want to share?
I can not speak for others, but my interest in seeing the piece, and hearing about how you aquired it, is both entertaining and informative. Hearing the story is a lot of fun, and seeing a lost treasure that's been found is quite exhilarating!
Such a rare experience shouldn't be kept to just one person.
But, if the photos reveal an obvious fake, yes, expect to be called out on it. Perhaps deep inside, this is your reason for not posting. Sometimes I feel that way about pieces I own... kind of normal.
BTW....
Robert Mowry is a Harvard scholar on the subject of Song wares and has been working with Christie's as a Senior Advisor for about 5 years or so. I've conversed with Mr. Mowry years ago regarding a Chinese painting they exhibited at a Harvard exhibition that I had a similar piece, and due to his involvement, the painting was accepted into auction in Hong Kong.
I'm not suggesting he and I are in any way friends (he may not even remember me), but I believe I could get a fairly quick response on the authenticity of your piece given my relationship with Christie's for the past few years.
But, I'd like to hear from some of the more knowledgable members on how well your Song piece actually compares to genuine 'ru' wares before sticking my neck out. My reputation is important to me, too.
Hi Greeno,you've highlighted my comment not Avatars,is that a mistake ?
Vic
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