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@ming1449 Here it is. Previously I did not know what it was made for, but I now believe it to be a seal paste box. I recently have seen one other example made with this interlocking design, but I have not encountered others yet. I imagine there are many but I am not sure how to look them up. At any rate, I do feel that this was made with great care, and it is in perfect condition. And, I am not sure I have ever seen paste so perfectly white, as it is on the unglazed inside rim where the box fits together. Also, the lid fits perfectly whichever way you put it on, so it is made symmetrically. I'll be curious to hear your thoughts. Thanks! John
Hi - If memory serves me right, I think this piece has been have been discussed previously in another thread? ...
The crane and cloud motif was very popular during Jiajing due to its Daoist association and longevity symbolism, and continues in to the early Wanli period, but I can not recalling seeing an example which also includes three of the ‘ba boa’ or ‘Eight Precious Things’, sometimes referred to as the ‘Eight Treasures’, two of which are identifiable, the Jewel or Mirror and the Open Lozenge but the third, nearest the cranes head/neck is poorly drawn and difficult to identify ...
Attached images, mainly to compare body, glaze, cobalt, footrim and base characteristics ...
1/2:- Square box/cover, attributed to Wanli period, Gugong, Palace Museum, Beijing.
2/3:- Two boxes, both recovered from a Ming tomb, Tangwan township in Shanghai country, attributed to 16th century and both now Shanghai Museum ...
5/6:- Various shaped boxes/covers from an exhibition held at the National Museum, Singapore in 1978 and attributed to middle/late Ming, although the dating within this publication is much based on the knowledge of that time ...
Although some of these are burial, or possibly shipwreck, pieces, note the characteristics differences of theses examples to the body, glaze and base where shown, that the box, lower section, is always decorated with motifs and never blank and there is always a discernible footrim, whatever shape, all rather different to you piece ...
I would also add that on minyao examples lids/covers rarely fit perfectly, but this is also true of Imperial JJ/WL examples ...
So not Ming, IMO, but subjective based on the images and I could well be wrong. It needs to be seen/handled, preferably by an specialist, in such wares ...
I hope the above is of some help?
Stuart
@ming1449 Thanks, Stuart! You are correct, I had posted pictures of this box previously, but I wanted to revisit it from a different perspective and with new pictures, etc. I feel like the cobalt looks to have an antique appearance, with some piling effect, etc, so I don't feel it is modern. But the whiteness, perfect condition, etc, makes it seem new. I was hoping that might be a good combination of traits. And I have come across some ming/early Qing objects with bases that I felt have similar color and were also flat, although not on boxes like this. Perhaps it is a 19th or early 20th C interpretation? It would be nice if I could identify the impressed seal mark. It is a very subtle little touch and I find it curious. At any rate, now that Peter is back in business I will probably see what he has to say about this box and go from there. I'll keep you posted as i find out more. Cheers! John
@ming1449 Hi Stuart I was wondering if you know what this floral pattern is named on this Ming plate in the Brooklyn Museum. Thanks for any help.
Hi Brian -
The central design is flowering peonies, the cavetto with lotus scroll and the rim with eight alternating flower/fruits sprays of various types ...
Attached image of a very similar dish, D. 40.3cm, Calouste Culbenkian Foundation, Lisbon ...
Apologise for the poor quality, just photo-shot in artificial light ...
Stuart
@ming1449 FYI I sent pictures of the little box to Peter. He feels it is a well made contemporary piece done in a style that incorporates elements of Jiajing/Wanli times. So, as you suspected, it turns out to be a nifty little box, but of little age or value. Cheers! John
@ming1449 thanks Stuart so I’m reading this pattern was a well used pattern in the Yuan period and carried over to Ming. Can you think of another period this pattern would have been revived?
Hi Brian -
Yes, the peony motif was very popular during the Yuan, usually in continuous scroll form but very rarely drawn in the colied/circler composition as seen on these early Ming dishes ...
As for a continuation/revival of in later periods, which peony pattern type are you referring to, circular, continuous or individual sprays of? ...
Stuart
@ming1449 thanks Stuart for that piece of knowledge. To make a long story short. I’m trying to understand a few things with the Peony and blossom design. I’m seeing Yuan styles on Ming bowls the reason I believe they are Ming is I’m told Yuan did not glaze the bottom of their ceramics as Ming and later periods did. So if I find a Yuan pattern with no mark and a glazed bottom I must assume it is either Ming or a modern copy. Because from Ming until modern times Yuan style was not produced is this correct?
Hi Brian -
The Yuan painting style had an enormous and lasting influence not only on Chinese ceramics but also on the potters of many countries such pieces were exported to, with the Middle East and Vietnam making direct copies or adopting compositions of such ...
Attached images/descriptions of some of these pieces for comparison ...
The first image shows a large Yuan dish, D. 44.5cm, the central design of circular of four peony blossoms, each showing a different side. The central design on this piece is unique, no other Yuan dish is known with such and is, perhaps, the precursor to that seen on early Ming dishes ...
As to glazed bases:-
Yuan yuhuchunpings and ewers always have glazed bases, this was probably due to the shape and glazing method used for such vessels but yes, all other Yuan forms appear to have been produced with unglazed bases, although quite a number of the large guans, meipings and flasks show areas of glaze splashing or running to this area ...
I hope this is of some help ...
I find the image of the Syrian pottery very interesting Stuart, with the continuous scroll decoration around the rim being almost identical to that on Yuan through to mid- Ming period pieces.
Since posting photographs of my Song dynasty bronze wine pitcher, Peter has kindly informed me that in the book by T Misugi it shows line drawings of the four main continuous decorations used on Chinese blue and white ceramics from the Yuan to Ming period and that in addition to the scroll decoration on my pitcher, one of the other four patterns is the lotus flower decoration on the Song dynasty bronze wine pitcher in the Beijing Palace Museum collection,
https://m-digicol.dpm.org.cn/cultural/detail?id=5ecc7a64c3c847bbb1b2676b63fb6a65&source=0
As both bronzes seem to predate the blue and white ceramics, perhaps these were the inspiration for two of the continuous patterns used. I still am unable to find another similar form of bronze wine pitcher other than the one in the Beijing Palace Museum collection and mine, but if another example turns up it would be great if it had another one of the patterns!
Kind regards,
Jeremy
It's not so often we see iznik and persian ceramis. They are stunnung examples.
@johnshoe I'm wondering if this might not be a Japanese incense box (kôgô), used in connection with the tea ceremony. The impressed mark appears to be 春峰, which would be read shunpô (or less likely, in this case, harumine) in Japanese. I did a quick google of that name, and it did turn up an Inoue Shunpô 井上春峰, apparently a 20th century Kyoto potter. There also appears to be a Heian Shunpô 平安春峰, although it's not clear what the relationship is between the two - so you may have to do a little legwork on this. I did find however, an incense burner very similar in form to your box, signed Heian Shunpô, which I'll try to upload here. Good luck!
John Lee
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